Nvidia’s GameWorks program usurps power from developers, end-users, and AMD

humbug · 27 Dec 2013 at 17:07

bru said:
Maybe I have been misunderstood, I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that is how these things are done.

I too would like to hear WB side of the story.

Nothing is misunderstood.

As i said, show me another game Developer doing this and i might go half way to agreeing this is an industry practice, its only Warner Brothers, Warner Brothers are not the whole industry.

Your "this is normal" justification does not fly, its far from it.

Rusty0611 said:
I'm not sure that anyone would care either except for pointing out the shoe was on the other foot now .

You do care, you care enough to say you don't care and keep repeating it over and over again, if you don't care why do you feel it so important it be known you don't care.

I don't know about you but i don't bother with threads i don't care about, let alone hang over the F5 key.

Gregster · 27 Dec 2013 at 17:20

Does Batman run bad on AMD hardware? I looked about and reviews had it at something like 140 on a 780 Ti and 110 on a 290X iirc.

It isn't like it is unplayable as I read it and vice versa (Mantle for instance), I wouldn't be bothered.

Rusty0611 · 27 Dec 2013 at 17:27

humbug said:
You do care, you care enough to say you don't care and keep repeating it over and over again, if you don't care why do you feel it so important it be known you don't care.

I don't know about you but i don't bother with threads i don't care about, let alone hang over the F5 key.

I posted once, then I replied to DM when he replied to me. And then to Matt.

So, no, you're wrong I don't care

If posting once saying you don't care is caring then I'm rather confused. Then again comprehension and all that...

humbug · 27 Dec 2013 at 17:47

Gregster said:
Does Batman run bad on AMD hardware? I looked about and reviews had it at something like 140 on a 780 Ti and 110 on a 290X iirc.

It isn't like it is unplayable as I read it and vice versa (Mantle for instance), I wouldn't be bothered.

Thats 25%, it matters because the performance on lesser GPU's is horrible.

Its not "unplayable" on a 290X, but most of us have much lesser GPUs.

Its a situation where a 7870 has similar performance to a much slower GTX 650TI in this game. its unacceptable.

Gregster · 27 Dec 2013 at 17:54

Are you sure it isn't just AMD devs are working on Mantle and just not had time to visit WB? I know they sent the code but if it is all new GameWork libraries, maybe the code AMD sent wouldn't work with the engine.

Obviously all if's ands and buts til we hear something official.

pgi947 · 27 Dec 2013 at 17:55

I don't care

Its one game from one developer....thats now 3 months old and largely unsuccessful compared to its predecessors.

Some of the chat in here you'd think nvidia were holding a gun to someone's head.

LtMatt · 27 Dec 2013 at 17:58

Gregster said:
Are you sure it isn't just AMD devs are working on Mantle and just not had time to visit WB? I know they sent the code but if it is all new GameWork libraries, maybe the code AMD sent wouldn't work with the engine.

Obviously all if's ands and buts til we hear something official.

pgi947 said:
I don't care

Its one game from one developer....thats now 3 months old and largely unsuccessful compared to its predecessors.

Some of the chat in here you'd think nvidia were holding a gun to someone's head.

Its a slippery slope to start going down. Hopefully its just a one off and not something thats going to become common practice. Given Nvidia's previous dirty tricks in this field, i would expect this to start occuring in every TWIMTBP title. Hope im wrong on that assumption though. If Nvidia are the ones responsible for AMD performance optimizations and improvements then some of us are in trouble.

EDIT

Will update the Mantle thread if i hear anything.

Final8y · 27 Dec 2013 at 18:08

Gregster said:
Does Batman run bad on AMD hardware? I looked about and reviews had it at something like 140 on a 780 Ti and 110 on a 290X iirc.

It isn't like it is unplayable as I read it and vice versa (Mantle for instance), I wouldn't be bothered.

If Mantle prevented optimization of the DX11 path for NV then yes it would be the same but Mantle does not.

Gregster · 27 Dec 2013 at 18:13

I love the game and it looks stunning in 3D. Sorry guys, just saying

pgi947 · 27 Dec 2013 at 18:17

LtMatt said:
Its a slippery slope to start going down. Hopefully its just a one off and not something thats going to become common practice. Given Nvidia's previous dirty tricks in this field, i would expect this to start occuring in every TWIMTBP title. Hope im wrong on that assumption though. If Nvidia are the ones responsible for AMD performance optimizations and improvements then some of us are in trouble.

I honestly can't see developers involved with TWIMTBP crippling performance for non Nvidia users, above all things it would be commercial suicide.

Do other gameworks titles have similar performance differences? The sheer amount of developers said to be using gameworks suggests not.

One off imo.

Orangey · 27 Dec 2013 at 18:18

Red Team standing by...

LtMatt · 27 Dec 2013 at 18:20

pgi947 said:
I honestly can't see developers involved with TWIMTBP crippling performance for non Nvidia users, above all things it would be commercial suicide.

Do other gameworks titles have similar performance differences? The sheer amount of developers said to be using gameworks suggests not.

One off imo.

I hope this is the case pgi. I have no problem otherwise. Performance optimizations for TWIMTBP or GE are fine and i have no problem with that. The only thing i do have a problem with is refusing or deliberately blocking a vendors chance to provide performance or optimization improvements. That is just unhealthy and something everyone should condemn as gamers. I'd be doing the same if the shoe was on the other foot as well and will do if i ever see AMD going down that route with Mantle.

Orangey said:

Lol, just what this thread needed.

Jarrastafari · 27 Dec 2013 at 18:23

LtMatt said:
Just incase anyone missed the link at the bottom to page 2, here it is.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...rps-power-from-developers-end-users-and-amd/2

This explains it for me, thanks!

humbug · 27 Dec 2013 at 18:38

Orangey said:
Red Team standing by...

SiDeards73 · 27 Dec 2013 at 19:31

WB owned by EA by any chance? hahah, they are like sad evil overlords if this is true. Anyhow im sure they can get around the legality of it by saying its "Optomised" for Nvidia gpu's or some shizzle. End of the day tho its extremely lame

kaku · 27 Dec 2013 at 20:03

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but from reading the article it actually seems like very little to do with nVidia, and more to do with WB Montreal saying "it's out the door now, it's done".

Could nVidia have paid WB to use their libraries? Potentially I guess, but to me it just seems like typical lazy publisher behaviour.

End of the day nobody wins; just business as usual looking to suck your wallet dry.

Gregster · 27 Dec 2013 at 20:21

humbug said:
Thats 25%, it matters because the performance on lesser GPU's is horrible.

Its not "unplayable" on a 290X, but most of us have much lesser GPUs.

Its a situation where a 7870 has similar performance to a much slower GTX 650TI in this game. its unacceptable.

Sooooo, I had a look at the frames for the low end GPU's and I still don't see what the fuss is...

72fps average on a stock 7870 looks good to me. Of course Nvidia is way ahead but it is still massively playable and I bet most of the people who use less than a 660/7870 are still on a 60Hz monitor.

tommybhoy · 27 Dec 2013 at 20:27

If it was a title that I was more interested in, maybe I would give a ****, have not bothered to finish BAC, mostly because BAA felt better, imo it's just a re-hash, reviews tend to state the same.

If Gameworks code is gimping future AMD driver optimizations and going to become standard practice long term, then they ain't getting my money-simples.

Anyway, won't be long now...

AMD's Mantle program usurps power from Nvidia running DX code, leaving Nvidia end users beelin

Orangey said:
Red Team standing by...

@Thracks,

Rusty0611 · 27 Dec 2013 at 20:33

tommybhoy said:
If it was a title that I was more interested in, maybe I would give a ****, have not bothered to finish BAC, mostly because BAA felt better, imo it's just a re-hash, reviews tend to state the same.

I liked AA the best too. AO feels better than AC. I prefer the story but the game is essentially the same as AC. The Riddler puzzles are a bit samey too. Almost like they ran out of ideas

.

humbug · 27 Dec 2013 at 21:50

Gregster said:
Sooooo, I had a look at the frames for the low end GPU's and I still don't see what the fuss is...

72fps average on a stock 7870 looks good to me. Of course Nvidia is way ahead but it is still massively playable and I bet most of the people who use less than a 660/7870 are still on a 60Hz monitor.

Thats with 4x MSAA, the best settings are 8x MSAA.

Its also only 41 FPS at 1600P.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/R9_270X_Gaming/7.html