Obesity is not a choice

FoxEye said:
It's not easy but it's not hard either. Hell if I can do it it can't be hard :p

It literally just requires a person to eat less.

It basically is a choice.
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not if you'r on multiple meds and some of them have fat gain as a side effect and one of the meds happens to be for gout, cannae cycle 40 miles with gout attacks or lift my weights, can't do a single thing :(

damaged my ass bone at the start of summer and it is still sore, no cycling for me all summer :(
 
I think most of the problem is people are eating the wrong type of foods.

But finding, and making, the right foods can be difficult.

We're assuming the person doesn't have any medical conditions.
 
It's one of those things where the NHS makes it a problem for all of us. In the USA system who cares. If someone can't lose weight it's only them who suffers. Over here everyone bears the burden . So we can't have obesity as accepted
 
413x said:
It's one of those things where the NHS makes it a problem for all of us. In the USA system who cares. If someone can't lose weight it's only them who suffers. Over here everyone bears the burden . So we can't have obesity as accepted
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There was a "psychologist" on BBC news this morning, basically saying, "Fat people can't help it, it's not their fault, they don't have a choice, they can't do anything about their weight."

I fail to see how that's helpful in the slightest.

The irony being the psychologist was moaning about how "unhelpful it is to fat shame".

I'd say it's distinctly unhelpful to go about convincing fat people they are completely powerless to control their own weight.

But that's 2019 for you. I'm sure the psychologist made a nice appearance fee from that programme, and will probably sell a book or two.
 
FoxEye said:
There was a "psychologist" on BBC news this morning, basically saying, "Fat people can't help it, it's not their fault, they don't have a choice, they can't do anything about their weight."

I fail to see how that's helpful in the slightest.

The irony being the psychologist was moaning about how "unhelpful it is to fat shame".

I'd say it's distinctly unhelpful to go about convincing fat people they are completely powerless to control their own weight.

But that's 2019 for you. I'm sure the psychologist made a nice appearance fee from that programme, and will probably sell a book or two.
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Its completely unhelpful Last thing people need is a 'professional' giving them an excuse . Also it doest help them either!
 
FoxEye said:
I think what you posted is wrong, and contradicts reality.

Two people on the same diet and exercise plan are not going to end up with wildly different outcomes. Your words: one could be "much fatter" than the other.

Sorry, that's just wrong.

The outcomes don't have to be exactly the same, but to claim one person can be "much fatter" than another, despite their calories in and work done being the same - over anything other than a very short space of time... this contradicts reality.

Face it, you're just another of these "progressive" types who want to blame society/a.n.other for bad personal outcomes. Again I'm no example to anyone, but on matters of diet and exercise and associated body shape outcomes, I will never put responsibility on anybody but myself.

e: Just to clarify: for two people in the same diet and exercise plan, there is no way in hell that one ends up being 11 stone and one ends up being 16 stone (which qualifies as "much fatter" without going to extremes).
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You never going to understand so is pointless.

But I did also forgot to mention obese people who are not able to do many exercises due to pain levels (related to health conditions).

I attend groups where people attend that are trying to lose weight so I do have some insight into these issues, doctors also attend these groups so medical opinions are also offered.

An entire industry makes billions from people trying to lose weight, yet people like you claim they not trying.
 
chrcoluk said:
An entire industry makes billions from people trying to lose weight, yet people like you claim they not trying.
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The industry is geared for people to fail so they keep bouncing back onto fad diets and spending more money at places like Weight Watchers etc.
 
chrcoluk said:
You never going to understand so is pointless.

But I did also forgot to mention obese people who are not able to do many exercises due to pain levels (related to health conditions).

I attend groups where people attend that are trying to lose weight so I do have some insight into these issues, doctors also attend these groups so medical opinions are also offered.

An entire industry makes billions from people trying to lose weight, yet people like you claim they not trying.
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OK let's try a different angle.

If being obese is not a choice then losing weight is also not a choice.

How then do you explain people who have successfully lost weight?

Given that it's not a choice, they must have been forced to lose weight by some external factor. Since they couldn't choose to lose weight (because being fat is not a choice), then they must have been compelled to lose weight by something external.

Take myself, for example. I've lost weight many times (and gained it).

Those times I successfully lost weight, given that I couldn't have chosen to do so, what was forcing me to lose that weight?
 
FoxEye said:
OK let's try a different angle.

If being obese is not a choice then losing weight is also not a choice.

How then do you explain people who have successfully lost weight?

Given that it's not a choice, they must have been forced to lose weight by some external factor. Since they couldn't choose to lose weight (because being fat is not a choice), then they must have been compelled to lose weight by something external.

Take myself, for example. I've lost weight many times (and gained it).

Those times I successfully lost weight, given that I couldn't have chosen to do so, what was forcing me to lose that weight?
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He / she's never going to understand so it's pointless.
 
FoxEye said:
OK let's try a different angle.

If being obese is not a choice then losing weight is also not a choice.

How then do you explain people who have successfully lost weight?

Given that it's not a choice, they must have been forced to lose weight by some external factor. Since they couldn't choose to lose weight (because being fat is not a choice), then they must have been compelled to lose weight by something external.

Take myself, for example. I've lost weight many times (and gained it).

Those times I successfully lost weight, given that I couldn't have chosen to do so, what was forcing me to lose that weight?
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It’s possible that some people just don’t have the willpower to overcome their cravings , it’s so hard to resist eating when you’re body is telling you it needs food . It takes a strong mind to overcome the cravings. In my own experience my cravings are really bad when I’ve got in the habit of eating too much sugar, this snowballs and leads to me gradually putting on weight which in turn causes me to crave and eat even more. I’m lucky in that I can recognise this and do something about it before it gets too far out of hand , I would guess a lot of people are not so lucky and can’t overcome their desire to eat.
 
JBuk said:
It’s possible that some people just don’t have the willpower to overcome their cravings , it’s so hard to resist eating when you’re body is telling you it needs food . It takes a strong mind to overcome the cravings. In my own experience my cravings are really bad when I’ve got in the habit of eating too much sugar, this snowballs and leads to me gradually putting on weight which in turn causes me to crave and eat even more. I’m lucky in that I can recognise this and do something about it before it gets too far out of hand , I would guess a lot of people are not so lucky and can’t overcome their desire to eat.
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So it's a choice for some people but it's not a choice for others?

Also habits are not choices? Some people can't break their own habits? But some others can?

It's all very confusing!

e: If it *is* a choice for some people, then surely this campaign to convince people that is isn't a choice, is potentially going to discourage some people from trying, who otherwise could lose weight, through choice?
 
FoxEye said:
So it's a choice for some people but it's not a choice for others?

Also habits are not choices? Some people can't break their own habits? But some others can?

It's all very confusing!

e: If it *is* a choice for some people, then surely this campaign to convince people that is isn't a choice, is potentially going to discourage some people from trying, who otherwise could lose weight, through choice?
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Maybe for some mentally it isn’t a choice as they can’t resist, much like a cleptomaniac can’t resist the temptation to steal or can’t resist being perverted even though they know it’s wrong.

For others it’s maybe is a choice and just a case of letting themselves go until a time they pick themselves up and sort themselves out. For those people though I do agree that putting across the notion to them that being overweight is not a choice is wrong.
 
I think there's a subtle point that many people are missing regarding 'choice'

If somebody goes into a shop, buys 3x Mars Bars and eats them all at once, then does it every day - then that is a conscious choice they're making, they're aware they're doing it because they're choosing to do it.

The problem is however, that the unhealthy environment itself is the driving force behind those poor choices, in the sense that there are so many 'forces' constantly driving people towards making those bad choices, rather than good ones, and it's done on purpose to make money.

If you have an environment like this, most of the time people can't resist these urges - not because they're bone idle, dumb or don't care, but because it can be really really hard. And it's true that the majority in western countries can't resist, hence the 65%+ overweight/obese rates.

Fix the environment, and you fix the problem, non-western diet countries simply don't have this problem - not because the people are different and are somehow more sensible, but because they reject the awful processed junk that we fill our environment with, and don't saturate themselves or their food chain with it.
 
We either give people credit for being competent human beings who are capable of running their own lives, or we don't.

This "They can't help it." line of thinking with this issue strikes me as demeaning.
 
Screeeech said:
Fix the environment, and you fix the problem, non-western diet countries simply don't have this problem - not because the people are different and are somehow more sensible, but because they reject the awful processed junk that we fill our environment with, and don't saturate themselves or their food chain with it.
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The government would have to legislate and there would be a whole heap of lawsuits if they tried.

But it would take legislation to make the kind of changes you refer to. Most of our food production is undertaken by companies with no morals whatsoever.

A case in point. Amusingly, Cadbury recently introduced a 30% less sugar bar, but somehow managed to keep the number calories almost exactly the same (despite being ~20% smaller in size as well). The 30% less sugar was not there to make the product more healthy. It was a gimmick to sell the idea of a healthier bar, despite being nothing of the sort.

They replaced some of the sugar with that highly processed corn syrup they seem to love in the US. The result? A lower sugar but arguably less healthy bar.

https://fitshit.in/dairy-milk-low-sugar/

We all know this, but most food production in the UK is 100% about profit, and totally amoral.

You'd be looking at the biggest shake-up of the industry in history if you wanted things to change in any significant way.
 
ttaskmaster said:
No, I'm just going to carry on not giving a **** what you say. As always, you clearly have no interest in addressing the conversation itself, so go **** yourself, ****.
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Given that you’ve replied three times now to tell me something along those lines it seems you do actually give a **** about what I said.

My objection is simply the nonsense claims being made, you did make a nonsense claim re: very low calorie diet and claiming you lost nothing.

You then got in a bit of a pickle when you later claimed you didn’t even weigh yourself. Essentially your anecdote just isn’t credible and the fact you’re getting overly emotional with people just posting out basic facts is rather silly.
 
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