Obesity is not a choice

[Moothead2]

People do, losing weight is not always as simple as its made out.

For the vast majority of people it is. Eat less, do more. Don't even have to do the second bit it just makes it quicker.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[FoxEye]

Often it's because we're so busy doing more than we don't have time for anything better than a motorway services QuickStop, or sending someoen out for a mass McDonalds order. More often, we're just flippin' hungry and so we eat until we're happy.
It'd be better, I think, to say eat better rather than just eating less. There are times I could eat three of those McDonalds™ breakfast burritos and still be hungry enough for one or two double sausage McMuffins™... or I could have something just as filling, but with a quarter (and hopefully far fewer) of the calories.

Simply eating less is often the problem, especially when you're just getting into a calorie deficit and are so hangry* that you make Russian road rage look like a kids tea party... but then, marketing companies know this, hence the Snickers adverts. I'm reliably informed that we need to drink Diet Tango, because we're weak...





*https://www.health.com/nutrition/what-is-hangry

I've done it both ways.

I've lost weight by starvation and I've lost weight simply through being acutely aware of what I was eating, and cutting out all snacks (and not eating at night).

You can lose several stone just by cutting out snacks and midnight eating.

You don't have to deal with the rage and extreme hunger of starvation, just to lose weight. I've experience that too and I know it's not pretty.

 

[jpaul]

Often it's because we're so busy doing more than we don't have time for anything better than a motorway services QuickStop, or sending someoen out for a mass McDonalds order. More often, we're just flippin' hungry and so we eat until we're happy.

are you speaking rhetorically ?
meal planning, or, its absence, be it eating at home, or going out, is part of the general obesity issue ..
bundle of laughs maybe not ... but if I'm going somewhere we'll plan to prepare something beforehand if there is uncertainty, take along a flask, small juices, good excuse for your favourite (corned beef/egg/sardine) sandwiches. Colonel Kurtz had it right with respect to Quickstop/McDo/... https://youtu.be/VKcAYMb5uk4?t=14

For those still watching the BBC/itv (maybe not millenials) the endless menu of eating better programmes; I fear many people do not watch these and laugh with disbelief at the habits of the 'families' portrayed and the junk they purchase/consume .. they are certainly not derrided sufficiently by the presenters; but maybe they are all just laughing all the way to the bank.
Usually just sad to see the overweight families that participate - we need some real (home truths) reality TV, and the BBC fulfilling something of the charter they are meant to expound.

 

[chrcoluk]

For the vast majority of people it is. Eat less, do more. Don't even have to do the second bit it just makes it quicker.

How do you know that, have you conducted experiments?

I think the science of how you gain fat isnt as complicated but getting rid of it is.

I know someone who didnt eat anything for several weeks, in desperation to lose weight, caused themselves serious health issues in the process due to malnutrition, but didnt lose any weight at all, body just countered the lack of eating by not burning off the fat. Thats the main issue, the body adjusts its fat burn off rates to counter adjustments of calorie intake.

 

[FoxEye]

How do you know that, have you conducted experiments?

I think the science of how you gain fat isnt as complicated but getting rid of it is.

I know someone who didnt eat anything for several weeks, in desperation to lose weight, caused themselves serious health issues in the process due to malnutrition, but didnt lose any weight at all, body just countered the lack of eating by not burning off the fat. Thats the main issue, the body adjusts its fat burn off rates to counter adjustments of calorie intake.

Then they can believe it isn't possible to lose weight and just go on being fatties.

As said, I've lost weight in a variety of different ways - some I'd recommend and some I wouldn't - and it basically boils down to either a) sheer willpower or b) a bit of willpower and a bit of fixing your routine, diet, exercise.

What it doesn't boil down to is, "It's not possible because x, y, z". Or, "There's a reason beyond my control that I can't lose weight".

 

[R.P.L]

How do you know that, have you conducted experiments?

I think the science of how you gain fat isnt as complicated but getting rid of it is.

I know someone who didnt eat anything for several weeks, in desperation to lose weight, caused themselves serious health issues in the process due to malnutrition, but didnt lose any weight at all, body just countered the lack of eating by not burning off the fat. Thats the main issue, the body adjusts its fat burn off rates to counter adjustments of calorie intake.

It's fairly common knowledge that suddenly starving yourself will cause the body's metabolism to shut down. I certainly don't think anyone who knows anything about dieting ever recommended it as a solid strategy for weight loss.

 

[sideways14a]

Doing it right can see a stone off you in a month.
Doing it wrong and... nothing happens other than the person feeling ill.

 

[malachi]

Always better to fast than right out starve yourself and be sick.

 

[Tefal]

You say that with such authority and conviction, but I don't think you really understand the problem well enough to make such a definitive judgement.

Consider the following things;

• Junk food, which is designed and targeted directly at children, and to be addictive, simultaneously using large amounts of fat and sugar
• An environment that's saturated with food, engineered solely to provide nothing other than 100% pleasure but 0% actual useful nutrition
• A transformation of the high street, which has seen 1000% increase in the number of fast food and takeaway outlets, with no controls in place
• Levels of sugary drinks which are targeted at children, resulting in them getting the diseases of alcoholics (type-2 diabetes and fatty liver disease) due to excess, unregulated energy intake.
• Food which is hyper palatable, and energy dense - which offers practically zero satiety, resulting in the ability to drastically exceed normal levels of energy intake

In the final analysis, if you perform an experiment - where you take healthy, responsible individuals and you drop them into an environment that contains a western diet, over time most of them become overweight or obese. (this happened wit Native Americans in the US, when they went from their reservations into the cities)

Not because they suddenly lose all sense of personal responsibility, or because they suddenly become lazy, but quite simply because in an environment such as ours - most people can't hold out against the onslaught of a highly toxic environment, which is why between 60-70% of the UK population are overweight or obese, and 28% of children are obese.

Consider that the obesity epidemic has only been around since the 1980s, we're still biologically the same people we were back then - there's no real evidence for a change in our biology that's driving obesity, but what did change in the 1980s was the onslaught of the food industry and the processed food revolution, that is what's driving the root cause of obesity - it's more of an environmental exposure, than a failure of personal responsibility.

If you don't believe me, go to your local petrol station and just look around at what's for sale, it's totally unrecognisable from a petrol station from 15-20 years ago, the way you're herded through a maze of junk food, sweets and junk - then offered 2 for 1 deals at the tills, is it any wonder the health of the nation is where it is?

Consider the following things


Heroin is very pleasurable


Heroin is readily available


You are not however a heroin user




Yes there is lots of delicious high calorie food around and lots of advertising but the only person putting that food in your mouth is you

 

[Felon]

Consider the following things


Heroin is very pleasurable


Heroin is readily available


You are not however a heroin user




Yes there is lots of delicious high calorie food around and lots of advertising but the only person putting that food in your mouth is you

You've actually helped me make the point I was making;

The main reason we have an obesity epidemic, is because children say yes to bad food that tastes great but harms them, they do this because they lack experience and are more susceptible to targeted advertising, once that behaviour is normalised - they continue on into adulthood, where you get an adult health crisis.

Children are not bombarded with targeted Heroin advertising inside games, the TV or social media, or behaviors that would lead them to using Heroin when they're growing up. They're far more likely to encounter it later in life or as adults (if at all) - at which point they're going to have enough mental fortitude and education on drugs to turn it down, so Heroin addiction remains a much smaller problem (but still a problem) than obesity, despite Heroin being a very pleasurable thing to do.

It's important to understand, that the root cause of the obesity epidemic is how the food industry targets children, which alters the choices they make and the behaviours they learn, they continue those poor choices into later life as adults, by which point it's very very hard to fix. It's therefore illogical to blame them when they're in the state they're in, because in a way they're victims of exploitation. They're victims of exploitation, because left to their own devices in an environment where they weren't targeted by the food industry, they more than likely wouldn't have such terrible diets and wouldn't become overweight in the first place.

 

[Tefal]

You've actually helped me make the point I was making;

The main reason we have an obesity epidemic, is because children say yes to bad food that tastes great but harms them, they do this because they lack experience and are more susceptible to targeted advertising, once that behaviour is normalised - they continue on into adulthood, where you get an adult health crisis.

Children are not bombarded with targeted Heroin advertising inside games, the TV or social media, or behaviors that would lead them to using Heroin when they're growing up. They're far more likely to encounter it later in life or as adults (if at all) - at which point they're going to have enough mental fortitude and education on drugs to turn it down, so Heroin addiction remains a much smaller problem (but still a problem) than obesity, despite Heroin being a very pleasurable thing to do.

It's important to understand, that the root cause of the obesity epidemic is how the food industry targets children, which alters the choices they make and the behaviours they learn, they continue those poor choices into later life as adults, by which point it's very very hard to fix. It's therefore illogical to blame them when they're in the state they're in, because in a way they're victims of exploitation. They're victims of exploitation, because left to their own devices in an environment where they weren't targeted by the food industry, they more than likely wouldn't have such terrible diets and wouldn't become overweight in the first place.

Really so its not like with smoking where making it socially unacceptable and the general public looking down on smokers or heroin users that has greatly influenced usage?


Perhaps we should looks at socially taking parents of obese kids to task. Not through law but perception and lack of acceptance like we do with smokers?


If you saw a 10 year old and their mum both puffing on a cig you would see a very public condemnation.


See a mum and her 10 year old both obese and eating a full mcdonalds meal and you dont see a reaction.


I'm not saying shame is a healthy thing for an individual but as a tool in society shame is an amazing influencer of peoples behaviour.

I suppose its if the cost to individuals is worth the pay off over time

 

[FoxEye]

You've actually helped me make the point I was making;

The main reason we have an obesity epidemic, is because children say yes to bad food that tastes great but harms them, they do this because they lack experience and are more susceptible to targeted advertising, once that behaviour is normalised - they continue on into adulthood, where you get an adult health crisis.

Don't these kids have parents?

I know it's 2019 and all and children should not be oppressed by the tyranny of adults and their rules, man, but surely allowing parents to set food boundaries might, maybe, be just about OK?

 

[Tefal]

How do you know that, have you conducted experiments?

I think the science of how you gain fat isnt as complicated but getting rid of it is.

I know someone who didnt eat anything for several weeks, in desperation to lose weight, caused themselves serious health issues in the process due to malnutrition, but didnt lose any weight at all, body just countered the lack of eating by not burning off the fat. Thats the main issue, the body adjusts its fat burn off rates to counter adjustments of calorie intake.

Yeah that's bs they will have lost a lot of weight just maybe not a large perceptible % if they're very big.


But odds are they just lied to you.


I didn't eat (except for 40g protein in a shake each day with no carbs) for a week to see what happened lost about 3lb iirc.


Your body can't just make circa 1500kcal of energy out of thin air when you stop eating, you don't have some emergency back up "starvation mode" fusion reactor up your arse

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[dowie]

I spent over a month, during which I ate no more than 350kcal and drank between 300 and 400kcal, and lost nothing.
I had to drop the food to 115kcal and the coffee to 250 before I started experiencing any loss, and even then it took almost 3 weeks before anything was noticable.
But of course the odds are I'm just lying...

I'm not saying you're lying but perhaps you've got things confused etc..

I very much doubt you went for over a month with a daily calorie intake of less than 1000 calories a day and lost nothing

As for the claim that when you then dropped it to only 365 calories a day and it took almost 3 weeks before anything was noticeable - that's just silliness.

Were you sat on the couch or in bed the entire time?

You're unlikely to be some super human the laws of physics don't apply to so the above isn't going to be a correct account - whether that is down to your own confusion, poor recollection/measurements or just outright lies or some other reason - I wouldn't claim to know.

 

[Freakbro]

Food at 115kcal would be around 1.5 slices of bread a day....

 

[krooton]

I'm not saying you're lying but perhaps you've got things confused etc..

I very much doubt you went for over a month with a daily calorie intake of less than 1000 calories a day and lost nothing

As for the claim that when you then dropped it to only 365 calories a day and it took almost 3 weeks before anything was noticeable - that's just silliness.

Were you sat on the couch or in bed the entire time?

You're unlikely to be some super human the laws of physics don't apply to so the above isn't going to be a correct account - whether that is down to your own confusion, poor recollection/measurements or just outright lies or some other reason - I wouldn't claim to know.

My wife did OMAD keto for 10 months in the run up to our wedding, with a calorie intake total of 1200 per day at the start scaling down to 1000 per day at the end (due to weight loss). Her intial maintainence calorie requirement was around 1500 (she's only 5'3").

She did not have an active daily routine, but would do 30 mins brisk walk on a treadmill every day for those 10 months (without fail, even when sick).

She lost 20kgs over those 10 months, and after about 2 months of OMAD conditioning it wasn't even that hard unless we had to go do a social event.

750 calories a day, as a man who probably has more muscle mass than my missus, and not losing any weight? I call shenanigans.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[krooton]

Muscle mass? Ha ha!!!
Well I'm not exactly Schwarzenegger here... I just had a big, wibbly belly that stuck out and flobbed over my belt.

Moot, I'm guessing you are a fair bit over 5'3", and as such and being male means you probably have more muscle on your body than my wife did as she was at around 37% body fat.