OcUK Ryzen 2000 series review thread

[DragonQ]

My GPU has a 150 watt TDP, at its rated clock speed of about 1500Mhz that's probably right, however, without doing anything to it, just putting it in the computer and running it from its drivers it actually runs at 1900Mhz, and its not using 150 Watts, more like 200 Watts, it does this because the MSI cooler can handle it.

Good point but hasn't that been the case with third-party GPUs for a long time? This is new for CPUs so should be mentioned. Also TDP =/= power consumption.

Every reviewer knows this, they have never said anything about it, but now that AMD are carrying that same technology forward to their CPU's its suddenly an issue.

It's not an issue, it just needs to be stated. Regardless of whether it's an advertised feature or not, do you not think it should be stated when MCE is enabled for an "at stock" benchmark of an i7-8700K?

Predictably now that AMD are following industry trend the whole debate is "we shouldn't allow AMD to do this" well what if AMD like Intel and nVidia didn't give you the option to switch it off? its things like this where AMD should have foreseen this cynicism and i just want to shake them violently to make the wake up to it.

I'm confused, just now you said both AMD and nVidia don't give you the option to turn off TDP-busting boosting (on GPUs), not Intel and nVidia? Intel's MCE can be turned off, just like PBO.

 

[humbug]

Good point but hasn't that been the case with third-party GPUs for a long time? This is new for CPUs so should be mentioned. Also TDP =/= power consumption.


It's not an issue, it just needs to be stated. Regardless of whether it's an advertised feature or not, do you not think it should be stated when MCE is enabled for an "at stock" benchmark of an i7-8700K?


I'm confused, just now you said both AMD and nVidia don't give you the option to turn off TDP-busting boosting (on GPUs), not Intel and nVidia? Intel's MCE can be turned off, just like PBO.

I have actually explained this, i'm not being funny but "Intel's MCE" its not Intel's, i said this is a Motherboard vendors feature, Its an Asus thing.

PBO is an AMD thing, its the same thing that allows my GPU to go over its TDP when the cooler can handle it, Intel's Skylake-X does exactly the same thing, it's why reviewers use very high end coolers when reviewing Intel CPU's.

AMD are just doing what Intel and nVidia already are, no one bothered to give them the same attention for it. its double standards and i'm sorry but this is a trend with reviewers, nVidia developed FCAT to show up micro stutter on AMD GPU's, when people asked PcPer to investigate microstuter people were experiencing on nVidia GPU's Ryan Shrout completely ignored them and it.
Toms Hardware making a huge issue out of AMD's RX series 400 card pulling more than 75 Watts out of the PCIe, just days before Toms own slides show nVidia's GPU's do the same thing, again ignored when that was pointed out to them.
I could go on all day.

The fact is AMD are late to the party with more than TDP boosting, why have the forerunners of this never been pulled up for it?

 

[DragonQ]

I have actually explained this, i'm not being funny but "Intel's MCE" its not Intel's, i said this is a Motherboard vendors feature, Its an Asus thing.

Uh that's why my question began with "Regardless of whether it's an advertised feature or not..." but if you're not gonna read what I write there isn't much point having this discussion.

I have actually explained this, i'm not being funny but "Intel's MCE" its not Intel's, i said this is a Motherboard vendors feature, Its an Asus thing.

The fact is AMD are late to the party with more than TDP boosting, why have the forerunners of this never been pulled up for it?[/QUOTE]
I don't know enough about nVidia's press coverage to comment but reviewers were pulled up for using MCE with Coffee Lake, and some of them in response claimed to not realise what it was or that it was enabled by default. Yes, the tech press really is that bad.

I just think that it needs to be clearly stated for all products, that's all. "Stock + MCE" or "stock + PBO" in the graph legend is enough.

 

[Davedree]

How is pbo anything different, or new.
to AMD's previous power regulation with their AM3+ (APM and Hpc).

Nothing new about it and nothing to worry about, it's just yet another factor which the more informed system reviewer/user should be aware of.

 

[humbug]

Uh that's why my question began with "Regardless of whether it's an advertised feature or not..." but if you're not gonna read what I write there isn't much point having this discussion.


The fact is AMD are late to the party with more than TDP boosting, why have the forerunners of this never been pulled up for it?
I don't know enough about nVidia's press coverage to comment but reviewers were pulled up for using MCE with Coffee Lake, and some of them in response claimed to not realise what it was or that it was enabled by default. Yes, the tech press really is that bad.

I just think that it needs to be clearly stated for all products, that's all. "Stock + MCE" or "stock + PBO" in the graph legend is enough.

Yeah fair enough.

Just on a side to that as i'm sure you have gathered; i don't believe for a second these reviewers didn't know MCE was on by default, i like JayZ2Cents and largely i trust him as a reviewer, i watched the video in response to Jim, i can't believe he missed that, he spends all day everyday in that ROG BIOS and its obvious that its turned on, other reviewers didn't say "thanks Jim, i didn't see that" they haven't stopped hating on him since.

I think, in fact we know from leaked "review instructions and results they should end up with" reviewers get a lot of instructions from hardware vendors and are under a lot of pressure to meet their needs.

If reviewers are to pickup on these things, fine, my issue is when they don't treat everyone the same, whatever pressures they are under is not relevant to me, its a choice they ultimately make.

 

[DragonQ]

How is pbo anything different, or new.
to AMD's previous power regulation with their AM3+ (APM and Hpc).

Nothing new about it and nothing to worry about, it's just yet another factor which the more informed system reviewer/user should be aware of.

PCs are bloody complicated these days. Long gone are the days of a CPU that has a fixed frequency on all cores (or its only core) and has a 30-50% overclock headroom. For better or worse.

 

[haszek]

But AMD's own release slides say

'** Precision Boost Overdrive enables operation of the processor outside of specifications and in excess of factory settings, we anticipate use of the feature will invalidate the AMD product warranty and may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer. Subject to change.'

So when someone is doing a review and has those slides, then whenever says in the review that it was tested at default (no matter on default motherboard settings) assumption should be that PBO is disabled.

 

[humbug]

But AMD's own release slides say

'** Precision Boost Overdrive enables operation of the processor outside of specifications and in excess of factory settings, we anticipate use of the feature will invalidate the AMD product warranty and may also void warranties offered by the system manufacturer or retailer. Subject to change.'

So when someone is doing a review and has those slides, then whenever says in the review that it was tested at default (no matter on default motherboard settings) assumption should be that PBO is disabled.

Right, which is why nVidia and Intel don't put out PR like that for the same thing, because their PR advisers are paid more than 30K a year and actually know what they are doing.

 

[haszek]

...

 

[Davedree]

PCs are bloody complicated these days. Long gone are the days of a CPU that has a fixed frequency on all cores (or its only core) and has a 30-50% overclock headroom. For better or worse.

You're too polite, I think you meant reviewers are mostly clueless bar the few that know what they're doing.

 

[kitfit1]

You're too polite, I think you meant reviewers are mostly clueless bar the few that know what they're doing.

Lol. When i read that Murray Walker sprang to mind "The lead car is unique, except for the car behind which is identical"

 

[Davedree]

Lol. When i read that Murray Walker sprang to mind "The lead car is unique, except for the car behind which is identical"

"Those that can do and those that can’t, talk about it"

Man I miss those good old days.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

 

[Hotwired]

PCs are bloody complicated these days. Long gone are the days of a CPU that has a fixed frequency on all cores (or its only core) and has a 30-50% overclock headroom. For better or worse.

I've been thinking about that. I have a 50% OC cpu and it pulls around 180W when loaded

Not exactly efficient when compared to energy consumption vs performance these days.

 

[chrcoluk]

It's incredible just how much better the Ryzen 2600(X) handles multiple workloads like streaming compared to the 8600K:

well yeah I have said if you stream whilst gaming then HTT (SMT) or more cores has a purpose. Although I am surprised the performance benefit is this big for streaming+gaming. The AMD chips have much faster cache speeds and also larger cache than intel so I wonder if those play a part in this as well.

 

[chrcoluk]

I have actually explained this, i'm not being funny but "Intel's MCE" its not Intel's, i said this is a Motherboard vendors feature, Its an Asus thing.

PBO is an AMD thing, its the same thing that allows my GPU to go over its TDP when the cooler can handle it, Intel's Skylake-X does exactly the same thing, it's why reviewers use very high end coolers when reviewing Intel CPU's.

AMD are just doing what Intel and nVidia already are, no one bothered to give them the same attention for it. its double standards and i'm sorry but this is a trend with reviewers, nVidia developed FCAT to show up micro stutter on AMD GPU's, when people asked PcPer to investigate microstuter people were experiencing on nVidia GPU's Ryan Shrout completely ignored them and it.
Toms Hardware making a huge issue out of AMD's RX series 400 card pulling more than 75 Watts out of the PCIe, just days before Toms own slides show nVidia's GPU's do the same thing, again ignored when that was pointed out to them.
I could go on all day.

The fact is AMD are late to the party with more than TDP boosting, why have the forerunners of this never been pulled up for it?

To be honest both should be treated equal.

The issue i have is when we e.g. seen that video a few days back showing the 8700k at 4.4ghz against the amd at 4.2 (or was it 4.3?) both supposedly run within spec when the AMD had this TDP busting PE mode (and others?) enabled. As far as I am concerned if you enable "toys" on intel, then AMD is fair game to do the same, but when you start claiming stock performance, stock spec, then things change.

 

[humbug]

To be honest both should be treated equal.

The issue i have is when we e.g. seen that video a few days back showing the 8700k at 4.4ghz against the amd at 4.2 (or was it 4.3?) both supposedly run within spec when the AMD had this TDP busting PE mode (and others?) enabled. As far as I am concerned if you enable "toys" on intel, then AMD is fair game to do the same, but when you start claiming stock performance, stock spec, then things change.

Agreed my point is not dissimilar to that, the fact is on CPU's Intel has been doing this for a couple of years, no one, not one reviewer said anything about it, now that AMD are doing the same thing its a problem because AMD are doing it, the fact that Intel do it is still ignored.

Double standards.

 

[chrcoluk]

yep, OC3D did mention it, he called other reviewers noobs as well for not noticing the out of spec clock speed on their reviews, but as far as I know he was the only one.

 

[humbug]

yep, OC3D did mention it, he called other reviewers noobs as well for not noticing the out of spec clock speed on their reviews, but as far as I know he was the only one.

Then kudos to OC3D.

 

[chrcoluk]

yeah it was not that long ago, think was a 2018 video, he mentioned that other reviewers were claiming stock results when MCE is on, you also may notice in his graphs he has 3 results for intel chips.

stock, MCE and OC