Look forward to this happening regularly, Button can barely beat the eldest guy on the grid I doubt Rosberg will have any problems beating JB. Will probably be as easy as Kimi beating Badoer
***Official 2010 F1 thread***
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Look forward to this happening regularly, Button can barely beat the eldest guy on the grid I doubt Rosberg will have any problems beating JB. Will probably be as easy as Kimi beating Badoer
Look forward to this happening regularly, Button can barely beat the eldest guy on the grid I doubt Rosberg will have any problems beating JB. Will probably be as easy as Kimi beating Badoer
Barrichello isn't a bad driver. Don't forget, out of all the team-mates that MS had, Barrichello was the only one who actually beat (or was in a position to beat) MS. Every other team-mate that MS had, never beat MS (on merit). In fact, I remember the likes of Lehto and Verstappen getting lapped by MS.
Really? The impression I got of the whole situation was that Alonso had burnt all his bridges with Ron way in advance of him leaving as it appeared he wasnt impressed that the new punk was being given the same kit as him, and beating him. Alsono didnt just say he wanted to leave to try to wangle a better deal, he really trully wanted out, and Ron let him. I dont see there being any issues with that?
TBH though the sooner Teflonso gets beaten buy someone else younger than him and he buggers off to America to race NASCAR the better. Think I might start cheering Massa on next year...
And wasn't anything like what alonso and hamilton were like. Was senna threatening to shop the team in. Was there argument having a massive detrimental effect on the championship. Having and publicly wanting to leave is not the same as a full blown war.
The above is true. But the R.Denis of 1990, would've managed the situation better and done his best to calm things down (just as we saw when Senna and Prost were not happy together, but was able to keep them together for 2years and then when Senna stated that he wanted to leave in 1992, Denis convinced him to stay another year).
R.Denis used to have the ethos of having the 2 best drivers in F1, in his cars, whether those drivers wanted to stay or not. In 2007, he no longer possessed this ethos (though Martin Whitmarsh did state a few days ago that his ethos was indeed to have the 2 best drivers in F1).
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On managing Prost/Senna and Hamilton/Alonso...
Do you actually have any evidence rather than uninformed gossip and biased whining to the effect that Ron Dennis favoured Hamilton over Alonso?
It seems to be admitted even by Alonso that he threatened to shop McLaren for an offence in which he and his compatriot Pedro de la Rosa were clearly intimately involved. Perhaps it was an idle threat made in the heat of the moment, perhaps not. Either way, I think that most employers would want to get rid of any employee who made such a threat.
Alonso was the architect of his own downfall at McLaren, he simply couldn't cope with being outclassed by a rookie in a team where there was an avowed policy of not according either driver #1 status and allowing them to fight it out like men.
I have no idea as to the source of your remarkable insight into Ron Dennis' thought processes but suspect that it is not quite as good as you imagine.
Do you actually have any evidence rather than uninformed gossip and biased whining to the effect that Ron Dennis favoured Hamilton over Alonso?
It seems to be admitted even by Alonso that he threatened to shop McLaren for an offence in which he and his compatriot Pedro de la Rosa were clearly intimately involved. Perhaps it was an idle threat made in the heat of the moment, perhaps not. Either way, I think that most employers would want to get rid of any employee who made such a threat.
Alonso was the architect of his own downfall at McLaren, he simply couldn't cope with being outclassed by a rookie in a team where there was an avowed policy of not according either driver #1 status and allowing them to fight it out like men.
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Shopping the team was a unique and unusual situation. The problem was that things got very heated during that Hungarian qualifying session. Things were said and done by Hamilton, Alonso and Denis. Unfortunately, rather than rising above it all, Denis also behaved like a spoilt teenager, which all culminated in the record fine which McLaren received.
Oh and Prost and Senna hated eachother with a passion. It got to a point where Prost had no problem taking Senna out of a race and Senna had no problem with taking Prost out. It eventually got to a point where Prost stated that he could no longer work alongside Senna and so left for a team (Ferrari) who had a poor car. Ron Denis did try and keep hold of Prost though.
it is still not the same and does not show Ron Denis changed. When things get that bad, managing is out the window and saving the team comes in.
Agreed on this - and even Mansell got sick of it and followed suit with the other top drivers after his experience with sharing a team with Prost (not because Prost was better, but the way the team "built" around Prost to Mansell's detriment)
So, making a threat, in private, in the heat of the moment is worse than publicly on national TV, making a statement that he wanted to move to a different team and would do so for free (Senna). I would say the latter is worse as he is in effect, publicly slating the team.
You have a weird definition of "outclassed", bearing in mind that Alonso and Hamilton finished on the same points.
Alonso certainly was upset that the team were not giving him total support, which is the norm in most teams and has been over the years. Even McLaren gave Senna superior equipment when Senna was No.1. Mansell received preferential treatment in 1992, where he was the first to get the upgraded car. MS also received the better equipmet, as did Prost, when he was at Williams. I believe that Hakkinen also recieved preferential treatment over Coulthard, when they drove for McLaren. This has been normal practise, where if you have the reigning World Champion in your team and he is paired with a rookie, the World Champ is automatically given preferential treatment.
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Look forward to this happening regularly, Button can barely beat the eldest guy on the grid I doubt Rosberg will have any problems beating JB. Will probably be as easy as Kimi beating Badoer
So I presume you will now default to Alonso's biggest fanboy?
Sorry, I meant fan.He's been saying it since fia announced there was going to be more teams and very focal about it. Wouldn't surprise me if he came back.
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It would seem that Ron Dennis didn't share your opinion there.
Seems a pretty fair term to me, but there you go . . .
Perhaps Alonso (or Flavio Briatore) should have done a bit more research then. Whatever you say, so far as I am aware, Ron Dennis has said for years that he doesn't believe in a #1 driver; perhaps that is why Schumacher never drove for McLaren?
I think that your assertions about Ron Dennis and a change in his approach are completely without factual evidence. Personally, I believe that the departure of Ron Dennis was a real loss to F1 and the only satisfaction is that the geriatric, sadomasochistic Nazi will now be taking his poisonous malevolence elsewhere.
If Button wins the title this year and then goes on to out race Rosberg next year I will finally conceed he is a truly talented driver.
Lets be honest, Barrichello is no stretch at his age. I cant help feeling the Brawn car is still leagues ahead despite being handicapped by its drivers. I think if Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi were in it, it would be lapping back markers inside 10 laps.
That'd be why Prost left at the end of the year then, having taken out Senna to win the drivers title.....
He did of course have to pay Senna $1m per race, with only a race-to-race contract rather than a full-year one. Hence having Mika waiting in the wings.
He still managed to keep Prost and Senna paired up for 2 seasons. Compare this with his attitude in 2007, where he welcomed the departure of Alonso.
Indeed. And this is just another example of what he was prepared to do to accommodate a top line driver. Compare this with 2007, when Denis made no allowances to keep Alonso and where playing happy families superseded all other facets of team management.
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Easy tiger.
I'm not a big fan of Button either; I still believe he is a journeyman and is intent on enjoying the lifestyle that being an F1 driver brings, as opposed to being a true racer. In fact, if Rosberg moves to BrawnGP for 2010 and Button wins the title this year, it wouldnt surprise me if he were to quit F1. However, I don't believe that Button/Barrichello are "that" slow.
I expect Button and Rosberg to be of similar speed next season.
You cannot mention Fisi and Alonso in the same category. Alonso will deliver if only because he will want to prove that he is the best driver in F1 and as such, he won't allow someone like Massa to be faster than him (by fair means or foul).
I tried to indicate that I wasnt
- but its still a valid question. The Ferrari looks a real handful this season, and I doubt they will want to re-design the car completely around Alonso straight off (even if he is the undisputed No1 , with the rumoured £20m /season it would suggest this might well be the case.)In some races the Ferrari has been at the front of the field and even Kimi has looked good lol - if this years kind of car suits Massa, will they **** him over just to suit Alonso straight away (and of course due to the accident there will be a lot of team favouritism to Massa if / when he comes back)
Think you are being very harsh indeed. I dont particularly like Rubens but he isnt that bad at all. Brawn' developed and fitted the engine very late, so there are definite drawbacks to that - so given the regs this year's car isnt the best it could have been just due to that.
2ndly there is factual evidence to prove that since Button's early season romps to victory the team have made team changes to assist Rubens (and his public rantings probably helped in this regard ) to the detriment of Jenson (there is a bbc blog somewhere about the types of brakes being used by the team has changed to favour Rubens since July), and in the last two races JB managed to keep pace with Rubens or beat him , with a car that favours Rubens - thats not shabby at all in anyones book.
When JB has No1 on his car, especially with a change of team mate to a less experienced one (which is important generally and during the design /testing /setup stage during the winter) it would be very strange for Brawn as a team to favour the less experienced member of the two in the same way they have with Rubens recently.
Brawn himself has said on numerous occasions this season he didnt even realise just how good a driver JB is , until he was inside the team - praise indeed from someone so well respected in the field.
Rosberg would make a great partner, but there is absolutely no reason to believe now why he would even be close to JB in the same car.
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I doubt the Ferrari is "that" difficult to drive. I think Fisichella (and Badoer) have made it look difficult. Fisichella, himself stated that if he could have a day or 2 testing, his lack of speed would be sorted. And Alonso is in a whole different league to Badoer (who was a terrible race car driver in his prime, let alone now) and Fisichella (who Alonso himself obliterated, when they were team-mates).
Since 2004, Alonso has consistently been able to match or outscore his team-mates' points totals and I doubt that Massa will be the first to beat him.
2010: Alonso Vs Massa VS Hamilton Vs Kimi and Button Vs Rosberg are interesting matchups. The title fight next year should be fantastic as we return to the status quo of the bigger teams and usual names dominating the top placings.
Since 2004, Alonso has consistently been able to match or outscore his team-mates' points totals and I doubt that Massa will be the first to beat him.
2010: Alonso Vs Massa VS Hamilton Vs Kimi and Button Vs Rosberg are interesting matchups. The title fight next year should be fantastic as we return to the status quo of the bigger teams and usual names dominating the top placings.