***Official 2010 F1 thread***

So? He's World Champion.

And I might remind you of Alonso's second half of the 2006 season, which wasn't exactly stellar compared with the first half....and he only had one driver to worry about catching him.

Alonso = multiple world champion.

Button = 1 championship.

Alonso, just happened to be going up against the most decorated driver in the history of F1.

Button managed won the title when the 2 big teams (Ferrari and McLaren), had very bad cars.

I understand that you are supporting Button's achievements, but any driver or sportsman, providing he believes in his own ability, will do what it takes to show that he is the daddy. In this case, going to McLaren and beating Hamilton will achieve this.

But like Housey stated, Button will stay at Brawn.
 
BAR owed him millions which is why that saga played out. Richards was removed, Button got his money and Honda signed Jenson. If the company I worked for told me they were paying me peanuts but if I delivered I got x amount as a bonus and then they witheld it I'd look elsewhere as well.

i never understood that deal with the Williams contract

wikipedia stays his original contract from 2000 was still in force.

so did williams try to bring him back under the same contract, or did he sign another one, then have to buy his way out of it ?
 
Alonso = multiple world champion.

Button = 1 championship.

Which means precisely ****.

Alonso, just happened to be going up against the most decorated driver in the history of F1.

Well hell, if we're going to play that card then I'm going to say that every single driver who won a title after Fangio retired had it easy.

Button managed won the title when the 2 big teams (Ferrari and McLaren), had very bad cars.

Yes. And?

I understand that you are supporting Button's achievements, but any driver or sportsman, providing he believes in his own ability, will do what it takes to show that he is the daddy. In this case, going to McLaren and beating Hamilton will achieve this.

But he's already shown that he's the daddy. He's World Champion.

But like Housey stated, Button will stay at Brawn.

Quite. Any move would be foolish in the extreme, and after sticking with Brawn's previous incarnation through the bad times he might as well see out the good ones.
 
Well hell, if we're going to play that card then I'm going to say that every single driver who won a title after Fangio retired had it easy.

JRS, I can't help but feel you are arguing with me for the sake of it.

But he's already shown that he's the daddy. He's World Champion.

Damon Hill won the title in 1996. This didn't make him the daddy of F1. Not when MS was still around and widely acknowledged to be the best driver in F1, by quite a margin.
 
Not when MS was still around and widely acknowledged to be the best driver in F1, by quite a margin.


What you and other people forget is that Farrari was getting a cool $80 million in back handers from FIA
when ever they won the champ which no one knew about.

They in turn put that money to design a car around Schui
And thats the reason IMHO that he won so much with Farrari.

Now take away the $80 mill every year and Brawn you now have a avg team.
 
JRS, I can't help but feel you are arguing with me for the sake of it.

Wow. You truly are 'brain of Britain' aren't you?

Damon Hill won the title in 1996. This didn't make him the daddy of F1. Not when MS was still around and widely acknowledged to be the best driver in F1, by quite a margin.

Yes it did. Until someone else won the title. Then Villeneuve was 'the daddy' for a bit. Then Mika for a couple of years, then Schumacher for a while, then Alonso, then Hamilton and now Button. That's how it works sunama - whoever wins the title is the best. Period.


deuse - what d'you think made the real difference? An extra bit of money for winning titles off FOM (so presumably they didn't have this extra cash before winning the 2000 title....), or the truly horrendous amount of money thrown at them by Marlboro's parent company for sponsorship? :)
 
Button may have won the championship, but he is not the best driver.

Lets say Driver A wins every race of the season but in the last 3/4 his car breaks down and so scores 0 points in those races. Driver B on the other hand comes second in every race but doesn't break down at all over the season and manages to beat driver A in the championship by a single point.

Driver B never beat Driver A in a race yet is crowned champion, proof he is not the best driver but simply got lucky in winning the championship.
 
[TW]Taggart;15164639 said:
/facepalm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8323753.stm

Barney Bernie. "No we dont need a british grand prix" UTTER TOSH. As usual he opens his mouth and spouts splerge. what f1 doesnt need is an old fart in charge trying to ruin the heritage of the sport he once help create.

Indeed, I love Silverstone as a track personally

Button may have won the championship, but he is not the best driver.

Lets say Driver A wins every race of the season but in the last 3/4 his car breaks down and so scores 0 points in those races. Driver B on the other hand comes second in every race but doesn't break down at all over the season and manages to beat driver A in the championship by a single point.

Driver B never beat Driver A in a race yet is crowned champion, proof he is not the best driver but simply got lucky in winning the championship.

Maybe Driver A is responsible for breaking his car, while Driver B drives so as to not break the car.
 
Indeed. And also you must consider any advantage that the driver is gaining by having a faster car than everybody else.

Normally, if a lesser driver beats a much better driver, he might be able to do this over a single season (eg. Button, Kimi, Hill). However, to do it multiple times - is virtually impossible.

Had MS won the title once - say in 2004, I would be the first to say, "He had the fastest car...not fair." However, when he wins the title in 1994. Then 1995. Then 2000-2004. He has scored more points than anyone else in the history of F1. He has more wins than anyone else. He has more poles than anyone else. He has more fastest laps than any other. He has more podiums than any other. You can now begin to say that it was more than just the car.

Beating MS (Alonso did this twice) is much more of an accomplishment than beating Webber, Barrichello and Vettel.

Now if Button starts winning multiple World Titles, then that changes everything. (Not to take anything away from Button, as he did the best job of any driver, with the equipment he had, in 2009).
 
Button may have won the championship, but he is not the best driver.

Lets say Driver A wins every race of the season but in the last 3/4 his car breaks down and so scores 0 points in those races. Driver B on the other hand comes second in every race but doesn't break down at all over the season and manages to beat driver A in the championship by a single point.

Driver B never beat Driver A in a race yet is crowned champion, proof he is not the best driver but simply got lucky in winning the championship.

This doesn't make any sense, if you're saying Button is driver A, then driver A did end up winning. If you're implying he's driver B, then you maybe forgot that he did beat driver A, at least 6 times...
 
This doesn't make any sense, if you're saying Button is driver A, then driver A did end up winning. If you're implying he's driver B, then you maybe forgot that he did beat driver A, at least 6 times...

Button is neither, its just an example of how the champion isn't necessarily the best driver.
 
Ah, ok.

I think he had problems (mainly in qualifying), but always put in great performances throughout the season. I can understand those saying it's the car, but Rubens was consistently slower; We'll see next season I suppose.
 
Beating MS (Alonso did this twice) is much more of an accomplishment than beating Webber, Barrichello and Vettel.

Now if Button starts winning multiple World Titles, then that changes everything. (Not to take anything away from Button, as he did the best job of any driver, with the equipment he had, in 2009).

Button beat Hamilton, and Kimi, and Massa, and Alonso as well though :)

Unless you are saying that the only "great" driver in F1 atm is Alonso since he beat MS twice, while everyone else has not beaten him twice, or not beat MS?
 
Button beat Hamilton, and Kimi, and Massa, and Alonso as well though :)

Button beat Hamilton, Kimi, Massa and Alonso, when they were all in very poor cars unable to compete for wins. Obviously McLaren cured this problem towards the end of the season, but by then it was too late (note that once the car was corrected, Hamilton outscored everybody in the 2nd half of the season).

Now, if Button can beat the likes of Alonso and Hamilton, when they all have competitive cars, then we can say it was a fair fight. But in 2009, realstically, Button only beat his team-mate and the 2 Red Bull drivers.

I fully accept that a driver can only beat what is placed in front of him, so it isn't his fault if the other teams have produced a slow car, however, Button hasn't beaten the likes of Hamilton and Alonso, while all of them were in competitive cars. Obviously, this is not Button's fault.

I'm hopeful that next year, Ferrari and McLaren will get their act together and give us a vintage year in F1. We really do need to get a competitive driver into that 2nd McLaren seat, ideally Kimi.

Unless you are saying that the only "great" driver in F1 atm is Alonso since he beat MS twice, while everyone else has not beaten him twice, or not beat MS?

I'm saying that Alonso beat MS to 2 WDCs. I'm saying that he and Hamilton were equally matched at McLaren. I'm saying that he is currently the most decorated F1 driver on the grid. The other drivers dont boast these credentials. I'll leave it to you to draw your own conclusions.
 
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Had MS won the title once - say in 2004, I would be the first to say, "He had the fastest car...not fair." However, when he wins the title in 1994. Then 1995. Then 2000-2004. He has scored more points than anyone else in the history of F1. He has more wins than anyone else. He has more poles than anyone else. He has more fastest laps than any other. He has more podiums than any other. You can now begin to say that it was more than just the car..

It was totally the car, they cheated plain and simple for many many of those years and the electronic advantage or the ferrari years is well documented.

Also it helps to have a team mate whose contractually a rear gunner from race 1.

The one year MS didn't have a massive car advantage he won nothing, until only 6 cars contested a race. they always said MS could win in a shopping trolley, well that year showed that to be untrue. He was only ever as good as his car like all the rest.

1996 he won some decent races in a bad car but he was never in contention so could gamble on full wet set ups where the challengers had to consider the title.

MS was a great driver but had a huge car advantage for many years. Shown by the ability of the car to sit in 5th place until the others pitted, whack in 4 fast laps and even up leading.

I dont know why people get so caught up in whose the best, there are far too many unknown variables to consider.
 
MS was a great driver but had a huge car advantage for many years. Shown by the ability of the car to sit in 5th place until the others pitted, whack in 4 fast laps and even up leading.

The reason why he did this was because this was the cleanest method of overtaking. As you well know, overtaking a slower car is actually quite difficult and has its inherent risks. So, why bother taking these risks, when you know that when you get clean air, you can demostrate your overwhelming speed and overtake during the pit-stop sequence. I know it isnt very exciting, but it is effective.

An intelligent sportsman, analyses the game and its rules. He then puts together a strategy that enables him to win. MS and Ferrar/Bennetton, did this to ruthless effect.

There is a saying, "Don't hate the player, hate the game."

Had MS won 1-3 titles, it could be argued that he didnt have much input in winning the races/titles, but if you win 7 titles and break every record available...there can only be 1 conclusion.

IN 2005, Ferrari produced a dog of a car. And it was in this season, where MS drove to the limit of the Ferrari. When on the limit, MS was able to score 63% more points than his team-mate.

MS didn't need to have outright No.1 status to beat the likes of Irvine or Barrichello. He could've demolished them if he had to race them. However, it was team effort and to increase the likelihood of title wins, Ferrari used a No.1 and No.2 driver setup.

Renault (with Alonso), also operated this strategy and were rewared with 2005 and 2006 titles. McLaren have also now adopted this strategy, as it increases your chances of winning the title. There is nothing wrong with this.
 
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