From Wiki..What ARE you on about
Though this is after the Frank Williams Racing Cars which used Brabham in '69 I think
***Official 2010 F1 thread***
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Though this is after the Frank Williams Racing Cars which used Brabham in '69 I think
What ARE you on about
I'll go through this step-by-step stockhausen, since you obviously weren't able to read the train of posts.
I noted that Ferrari didn't get their start in F1 as a small team, but rather were a main manufacturer right from the get-go. I then noted for all the people bleating about them having a go at the FIA that Williams were rather more hypocritical than Ferrari given their stance on the customer chassis row that we've had in recent years. Then, sunama asked me to elaborate. I posted that Williams started out in F1 with a March chassis and Cossie DFV engine (I'm still not sure about the Hewland gearbox).
Savvy? Or d'you need another run through?
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What's the current stance on customer cars and the whole Red Bull/Torro Rosso situation - I vaguely remember talk of Red Bull looking to sell Torro Rosso by the end of 2009 but obviously nothing ever came of that.
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That's it then . . .
1977 . . . a customer March 761 . . . Ye Gods, that REALLY is hypocritical
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. . . and then the FW07B, FW07C, FW08, FW08C, FW09, FW09B, FW10, FW11, FW11B, FW12, FW12C, FW13, FW13B, FW14, FW14B, FW15C, FW16, FW16B, FW17, FW17B, FW18, FW19, FW20, FW21, FW22, FW23, FW24, FW25, FW26, FW27, FW28, FW29, FW30 and for 2009, the FW31
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That's it then . . .
1977 . . . a customer March 761 . . . Ye Gods, that REALLY is hypocritical
*sigh*
Brabham chassis in '69 for Piers Courage to drive. A de Tomaso chassis was ran though 1970. Williams then ran March chassis for a few years before an ill-advised tie-up with Politoys and later Iso led to an in-house chassis being built. Down the line came the link to Walter Wolf and his outfit (initially running the old Hesketh cars I believe), before Frank split with Wolf and ran a March again and later building his own cars.
So yes, vehemently opposing customer cars as a route for new teams to get into F1 is a little hypocritical of him IMO. I'll take it as read that you disagree.
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Don't see the problem with customer cars myself if it helps teams to get on the grid. It's always been acceptable in sportscar/endurance racing and the like.
Quite. I never have understood the furore over it - if it truly is that much of a problem, then don't award constructors points to teams that aren't building their own cars. Simple. Isn't it
Not if you say that the customer chassis cannot run the same engine as the supplier chassis
Not if you say that the customer chassis cannot run the same engine as the supplier chassis
or max the customer limit to only 1 team.
I don't believe that would happen if full-on customer cars were re-allowed. Ferrari would always build their own car, McLaren probably would as well. Williams won't go back to customer cars or they really will look hypocritical. RBR seem pretty solid without resorting to buying someone elses kit, ditto for BrawnGP. STR pretty much already are running a customer chassis due to the RBR tie-up, so I guess that'll continue for a while. Force India seem to be doing a decent job without having to draft in help. Renault, if they stay in, will probably continue to do everything in-house. We'll have to wait and see how the new guys do, but I can't imagine the FIA not doing due diligence and letting people into the sport who would just tool around 15sec per lap off the pace.....*snort*
I just think that if you're going to demand cost-cutting, then why not allow teams to buy a chassis as well as buy drivetrains? Cheapest way out there of padding out the grids, and historically we've seen teams start out with customer cars and work up to building their own (British Racing Partnership, Tyrrell, Hesketh, Williams....).
With the exception of Ferrari and McLaren, if any of the mentioned teams had seasons like Honda did in their last two seasons or Toyota 06 & 07, their board would be saying "We need a winning car... instead of throwing £m into making one, let's buy a proven Chassis / Engine combo". Either that or leave... simple as. Why run at the back when your competitors have shifted and bought customer cars now are mixing it at the front.
Oh sure, if they had those hypothetical bad seasons they could well say that. But are they likely to have seasons where they're so far off the pace that they'd decide to buy the kit from someone else? If we agree than Ferrari and McLaren probably wouldn't go down that route (they never did when times were bad for them and customer cars were allowed, after all), do we honestly think RBR, Brawn, Williams et al would?
None of this matters, of course. By the time the FIA is done, all the teams will be driving the same bloody car anyway. Only the paintjobs will be different.
That rarely happened when customer cars used to be allowed. Tyrrell running Matras and later a March for Jackie Stewart (before building their own car) was probably the last time that a customer car ended up at the pointy end of things on a regular basis. I'll defer to anyone who can remember another example.
Is there a lot of difference between F I and McLaren this year?
I guess its just concidence that just after McLaren re-discovered their form this year F I /Sutil /Fisi started regularly qualifying well?
(Im being lazy lol, Im sure they are completely different chassis but its still remarkably co-incidental, even though the FI car is their own design)
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Raikkonen eyes lucrative sabbatical in 2010
€25m > €17m
Shurely shome mishtake . . . unless McLaren are planning to pay him just €5m
€15m + €10m = €25m
€25m > €17m
Shurely shome mishtake . . . unless McLaren are planning to pay him just €5m
€15m + €10m = €25m
€25m > €17m
Shurely shome mishtake . . . unless McLaren are planning to pay him just €5m
Looks to me that €15m includes both Ferrari payoff and McLaren wage.