Soldato
Now that a good few drivers have properly lost out due to track limits, I imagine they'll all have suddenly learned how to drive within the rules.
Poll: Official 2023 Austrian Grand Prix Thread - Red Bull Ring, Spielberg - Round 10
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Soldato
I doubt it very much if they feel they need to learn anything. A racing driver will still take risks and drive flat out..
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Slightly more extended radio clips from Ham to pit wall from early on in race, through to the publicly broadcast stuff later on.
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Soldato
I didn't mean they'll drive slowly. I meant they will drive within the rules...
We shouldn't pretend that they can't do it, it's just they didn't want to.
True, of course. I think it's clear that the current system doesn't work. We just can't have races decided after the podium. It's a nonsense. Like it or not, the reality of driving a race car on the very edge of its capabilities means you'll give a bit of leeway when there's a wall, and you'll give a lot less leeway when there's just a white line. I don't think there's any arguing against that, especially when if there's a white line you might not even get picked up on it - and get away with the extra 0.1s (unless you're being followed by Lando NorrisTo the same or less than the penalties you receive though
).
Soldato
Yeah I knew what you meant, however it's not as simple as not wanting too. Basically a driver will go as fast as they can around every corner very close to a point of being out of control because if they don't they can be vulnerable to a drs overtake and the last thing they are looking at anyway is where there tyres are positioned to a white line.
Monaco is not similar to Austria in that respect because there a driver can judge where the barriers are because they, basically, stick up into the field of view. It is so difficult to drive a f1 car like that lap after lap and quite often a driver can be doing the same thing at a corner then go off track for no reason when they've done nothing different.
Soldato
I feel like I am watching a different motorsport to a lot of others here. Talking about the drivers being on the limit, lap after lap. Does that even happen these days?
Soldato
Ask a F1 driver..
Soldato
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There’s also the fact that if they didn’t “just go over the line a little” and others did - over the course of the race that may well add up to a significant enough time advantage to affect the outcome of the race.
As much as I can’t abide Lewis’ whining, I think this is the root of his point. You can’t have only some getting penalties and not others and if you are going to enforce track limits like this then you need the resources and systems to do it properly to ensure it’s fair and ensure its done prior to the podium (ideally).
Or you put removable concrete barriers in place for the the F1 which can be taken away and preserve the run off areas for other formulas and race classes (ie bikes).
Its almost as if this race was a mass protest by the drivers in some way, to make the point.
I voted a 2 out of 10 mainly because I find the track limits farce especially annoying. It's a lazy approach to not fixing this. The FIA should have stepped in and overidden the Austria circuit owners and made them fix the track or take it off the calendar.
Gravel Vs grass Vs concrete Vs tarmac. I think it's simple...bring back grass and maybe even some gravel too. If safety is the main concern with grass not providing enough grip to kill speed before impact with barriers then I can think of solutions to that too:
1. Oh well
2. Extend the grass and put the crowd back further
3. Redesign the tracks
4. Use better tracks
5. Use a strip of grass only a car width or two wide which is then followed by tarmac. Or the same with gravel. Bit of gravel then tarmac.
Basically make it self policing. We don't accept football results ever being changed after the match. In fact, we don't accept it in many sports. Why F1? I don't ever want to see the dreaded "...will be investigated after the race" again if we can help it. Sort it during. Did they not learn anything from previous shenanigans and F1 low points?
Gravel Vs grass Vs concrete Vs tarmac. I think it's simple...bring back grass and maybe even some gravel too. If safety is the main concern with grass not providing enough grip to kill speed before impact with barriers then I can think of solutions to that too:
1. Oh well
2. Extend the grass and put the crowd back further
3. Redesign the tracks
4. Use better tracks
5. Use a strip of grass only a car width or two wide which is then followed by tarmac. Or the same with gravel. Bit of gravel then tarmac.
Basically make it self policing. We don't accept football results ever being changed after the match. In fact, we don't accept it in many sports. Why F1? I don't ever want to see the dreaded "...will be investigated after the race" again if we can help it. Sort it during. Did they not learn anything from previous shenanigans and F1 low points?
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Don
It isn't simple. The main issue with grass or gravel is that it is very unsafe for motorbike racing which uses a lot of the same circuits as F1
Exactly and they've just spent a load putting in the new chicanes, etc for Motorcycling on the first straight so that bikes enter turn 3 much more slowly, the days of F1 ruling the roost purely over a track are long gone
Post became pointless after first failed attempt at humour. If not poor humour, then just general lack of respect for the people who race in all formulas on the tracks.
? The vast majority of motogp current racing calendar has tracks that feature gravel. It's the size of the curbs that are often the issue with motorcycle racing as riders get chucked along the tarmac into them. OK so it isn't "simple" to magically resolve, but I'd rather see an instant physical grip limitation than anything virtually policed. Grass would provide that. You can't really do it with tarmac unless you made it some special - probably expensive - slippery material, or made it wet.
I have a massive amount of respect for racers! You've misunderstood the comment. I am not saying "oh well, crash and die". I am saying, "oh well" as in, we may have more cars finding the barriers if they push it. Like the old days where drivers actually got punished for going wide and losing control. We now have crowds further back than ever, loads of run off and tech-pro barriers to prevent injuries. Yet we still have concrete walls and metal barriers round some street circuit tracks. Whatever we do, we still will have a Grosjean accident every now and then. it is inevitable as motor racing is dangerous. Tarmac run off has been added to circuits where unfortunately due to the layouts, there will always be corners where it pays to run wide pocketing more overall speed. So yes, @Armageus is right, it has now gotten to a point where it actually is difficult to resolve it with a blanket "just add grass" as each circuit is a case by case basis.
Can you imagine yet another graphic being added on the F1 TV feed with a column for number of in race time penalties a driver has. Lame. We just want to keep it simple, raw, and have an actual podium which is the result is my point. If we get more crashes as a result of people going wide, then the "oh well" I think is valid. They won't be much bigger crashes if they have had one less car width of tarmac to kill speed. I am not talking about grass ALL THE WAY up to the barriers. Just a strip to stop them pushing track limits.
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No real issue with a graphic showing penalties, would be handy information to have
Caporegime
I find it unforgivable that they don't. They show people under investigation. Why not show who has unserved penalties in the same place?
The other option is a Gran Turismo (or any other racing game that does it) remote engine power cut off when you pass a penalty line. I doubt they would ever go for this due to again health and safety having high closing speeds and drivers not being in control.
Some motor racing formulas have a penalty line where you have to go wide around a slightly wider corner line. I've seen this in motorcycle racing. Not sure if it was WSB series. Again the thing with this is that it ultimately detracts from the racing because then the heat of the battle gets erased by pushing them back X number of seconds at some point in the future. I'd prefer to see an instant grip loss or physical speed disadvantage going wide or track design which does not even enable an advantage of going off the track at all. The only feasible, cheapish and easy way I can think of doing without making changes to existing track layout, is using grass (real or artificial/synthetic) strips on the exits.
EDIT: As Brundle says, it's funny how when it rains, the drivers can stay off the curbs and white paint then.
Some motor racing formulas have a penalty line where you have to go wide around a slightly wider corner line. I've seen this in motorcycle racing. Not sure if it was WSB series. Again the thing with this is that it ultimately detracts from the racing because then the heat of the battle gets erased by pushing them back X number of seconds at some point in the future. I'd prefer to see an instant grip loss or physical speed disadvantage going wide or track design which does not even enable an advantage of going off the track at all. The only feasible, cheapish and easy way I can think of doing without making changes to existing track layout, is using grass (real or artificial/synthetic) strips on the exits.
EDIT: As Brundle says, it's funny how when it rains, the drivers can stay off the curbs and white paint then.
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Anyway feels like the topic has been flogged to death, need to see what they come up with
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