Poll: Official 2023 Miami Grand Prix Race Thread - Miami International Autodrome, Miami - Race 5/23

[Mr Jack]

I think there'd be nearly zero overtaking then, as it was in the past.

There'd certainly be considerably less, yes, but I don't see boring DRS passes as being an improvement on that and I think we'd get much more honest and engaging racing as a result of the loss of DRS. Max making a second lap pass when he nabbed an opportunity was considerably more interesting than watching him DRS past Gasly a few laps later. The teams are also going to be working on tactics, setup and development to make those overtakes possible more often.

Other teams just need to do a better job and take a leaf out of RB. Or is it just the RB cars that is the issue here that some are complaining about?

The other teams getting their act together would make the contest for the championship better overall, but as we've seen over the seasons since DRS was introduced, that doesn't stop DRS passes being boring.

 

[ChrisD.]

Have you noticed the alpha tauri making the same noise (haven’t noticed and I am temporarily deaf, or I would go listen myself )?

I've only noticed it on the Red Bull. Something is definitely going on.

 

[Greboth]

Perhaps get your facts straight before calling people out?

'the FIA statement that said had Red Bull Bull applied the correct treatment to a notional tax credit, the team would have exceeded the budget cap limit by just £432,652. This, he pointed out, reduced the overspend from 1.6% to 0.37%.'

I suggest you look up the definition of ‘would’.

As if we’re going by ‘had’ and’would’ - Had Red Bull not exceeded the cost cap, the team would have not exceeded the budget cap and therefore they shouldn’t have got a penalty at all.

You handly forgot to quote the paragraph above though from the FIA statement;

“consequently its [Red Bull’s] Relevant costs for the 2021 Reporting Period exceeding the 2021 Cost cap by £1,864,000 (1.6%). RBR has therefore accepted it has breached … the Financial Regulations”

Yes what RBR could have claimed back was taken in to account for the punishment but even RBR accepted their actual breach was £1.8 million.

 

[Stumble Bum]

I suggest you look up the definition of ‘would’.

As if we’re going by ‘had’ and’would’ - Had Red Bull not exceeded the cost cap, the team would have not exceeded the budget cap and therefore they shouldn’t have got a penalty at all.

You handly forgot to quote the paragraph above though from the FIA statement;

“consequently its [Red Bull’s] Relevant costs for the 2021 Reporting Period exceeding the 2021 Cost cap by £1,864,000 (1.6%). RBR has therefore accepted it has breached … the Financial Regulations”

Yes what RBR could have claimed back was taken in to account for the punishment but even RBR accepted their actual breach was £1.8 million.

As Red Bull have now claimed their tax credit then their net overspend is not 1.6% it IS 0.37% as you keep being told. I don't know why you try to make out the situation as worse than it really is. the NET overspend is 0.37% but anything to join in on the Red Bull hate train I suppose. Excuses needed by some for how such a tiny amount relates to Red Bull being a second quicker than everyone. Oh dear oh dear. Just accept the fact that Red Bull have nailed their car and deserve their success. they've simply been better.

 

[Feek]

Let’s try and keep this on topic please rather than drag all the cost cap stuff out again.

 

[cuke2u]

I've only noticed it on the Red Bull. Something is definitely going on.

The Honda engine has always sounded different to other makes right from the beginnings with Mclaren..

 

[turbot1984]

Over 50% of the votes 3 or less. Says it all.
Who voted 10? Jackie Stewart and Jos Verstappen?

 

[Mesai]

Untouchable Schumacher era monotonous or Untouchable Hamilton era monotonus?

The Ham era was probably the worst of the lot. Merc got their car right from day 1 and the other teams took years to just make a dent - the midfield barely raced due to failures and massive fluctuations in performance each season.

 

[cuke2u]

There'd certainly be considerably less, yes, but I don't see boring DRS passes as being an improvement on that and I think we'd get much more honest and engaging racing as a result of the loss of DRS. Max making a second lap pass when he nabbed an opportunity was considerably more interesting than watching him DRS past Gasly a few laps later. The teams are also going to be working on tactics, setup and development to make those overtakes possible more often.



The other teams getting their act together would make the contest for the championship better overall, but as we've seen over the seasons since DRS was introduced, that doesn't stop DRS passes being boring.

I am sure that the fia have tested, in wind tunnel simulations or on track, the effect of having, or not having, this single aerodynamic part of a f1 car and decided it's loss creates no gains and higher losses. What we see as an 'effect' of the drs in action is probably only a small part of what is actually going on as the drs technology is designed to work with other aero parts of the f1 car.

After all none of what we are seeing with today's cars are solely designed by a drawing on a fag packet, aside from possibly the genius Newey of course

Whilst just the disabling of the drs might appeal to some 'purists' I very much doubt if the result will be what they expect it to be, given what we know from the past and the huge number of procession races that occurred season to season.

We've had a couple of dull races but lets not throw the baby out with the bath water just yet..

 

[Mr Jack]

I am sure that the fia have tested, in wind tunnel simulations or on track, the effect of having, or not having, this single aerodynamic part of a f1 car and decided it's loss creates no gains and higher losses. What we see as an 'effect' of the drs in action is probably only a small part of what is actually going on as the drs technology is designed to work with other aero parts of the f1 car.

I think that's rather unlikely, personally. It's incredibly difficult to model a single car, yet alone an actual race with all that involves.

We've had a couple of dull races but lets not throw the baby out of the bath water out just yet..

Yeah, but DRS is the bathwater not the baby

 

[Jono8]

The Ham era was probably the worst of the lot. Merc got their car right from day 1 and the other teams took years to just make a dent - the midfield barely raced due to failures and massive fluctuations in performance each season.

The trouble is, that still doesn't make the crazy domination any better/right.

I don't know how F1 can stop this happening, but everything they try either doesn't work or makes things worse.

If anything, new regulations all the time seems to actually make things worse, because as soon as we get to a point where other teams start to catch up with the dominant team, changes come and a new dominant team emerges.

I have no doubt other teams will eventually find a way to get close/on par with the new RB....but that will probably be close to 2026 when another set of new regs come in and upend everything again!

 

[chrismscotland]

The trouble is, that still doesn't make the crazy domination any better/right.

I don't know how F1 can stop this happening, but everything they try either doesn't work or makes things worse.

If anything, new regulations all the time seems to actually make things worse, because as soon as we get to a point where other teams start to catch up with the dominant team, changes come and a new dominant team emerges.

I have no doubt other teams will eventually find a way to get close/on par with the new RB....but that will probably be close to 2026 when another set of new regs come in and upend everything again!

Lets be honest the only way your getting identical/close racing is a spec series and F1 has always avoided that

 

[mid_gen]

But the races were extremely dull before drs with long trains of cars stuck behind each other. I clearly James Hunt stating the Trulli train in several races. Getting rid of drs is not the solution because it has worked and the fans wanted a solution at that time. Unfortunately though some, it seems, forget, or weren't around, pre drs and how bad those races were also..

DRS has been crap since it was introduced and many fans, me included, said it wasn't the solution back then, and it definitely isn't the solution now.

You might occasionally have had trains of cars, but watching them take increasing risks and daring moves to try and get past was actual motor racing.....not this farce at the moment when the driver behind simply presses the overtake button and breezes past.

So many other Motorsports get it right, it's not in unsolvable problem, it's a problem created by the F1 regs.

 

[Jono8]

Lets be honest the only way your getting identical/close racing is a spec series and F1 has always avoided that

Another concern, is that the cost cap might stifle other team's ability to catch up too.

Although Aston have made big strides I guess. They are obviously still miles of the RB like everyone else.

 

[Jono8]

DRS has been crap since it was introduced and many fans, me included, said it wasn't the solution back then, and it definitely isn't the solution now.

You might occasionally have had trains of cars, but watching them take increasing risks and daring moves to try and get past was actual motor racing.....not this farce at the moment when the driver behind simply presses the overtake button and breezes past.

So many other Motorsports get it right, it's not in unsolvable problem, it's a problem created by the F1 regs.

It's made especially worse when the RB has silly straight line speed. Max's overspeed on Leclerc and Mags was comical.

 

[Lopéz]

But the races were extremely dull before drs with long trains of cars stuck behind each other. I clearly James Hunt stating the Trulli train in several races. Getting rid of drs is not the solution because it has worked and the fans wanted a solution at that time. Unfortunately though some, it seems, forget, or weren't around, pre drs and how bad those races were also..

James Hunt died four years before Jarno Trulli made his F1 debut, so I'm not sure you clearly remember him saying that!

 

[turbot1984]

Another concern, is that the cost cap might stifle other team's ability to catch up too.

Although Aston have made big strides I guess. They are obviously still miles of the RB like everyone else.

Yeah even Alonso was nearly half a minute behind in a fast AM, still think he'll get win though, not sure it will be the 'perfect' Spanish 10th anniversary though?

 

[Mr Jack]

James Hunt died four years before Jarno Trulli made his F1 debut, so I'm not sure you clearly remember him saying that!

I think @cuke2u probably meant to type James Allen there?

 

[Lopéz]

I think @cuke2u probably meant to type James Allen there?

Yeah I think so too, it was just to good to let slide!

James, commentating from the grave

 

[Jono8]

Yeah even Alonso was nearly half a minute behind in a fast AM, still think he'll get win though, not sure it will be the 'perfect' Spanish 10th anniversary though?

Yeh, surely there has to be one race where both the Bull's retire!