Poll: Official 2023 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Race Thread - Jeddah Circuit - Race 2/23

[kalniel]

If Aston Martin have actually copied Red Bull’s aero and paired it with a good chassis as well as Mercedes power, I can see them being ahead of Ferrari and Mercedes at the end of the season based on the first 2 races.

In other news, McLaren have managed to take a huge step backwards from being midfield scrappers in 2022 to backmarkers in 2023.

So much of the aero is underneath now so hard to tell what's a copy of what, but if they did copy, then generally that only gets you up to where the copy was made, not beyond it as you don't understand the philosophy behind it. Red Bull on the otherhand will have a seasons worth of improvements they'll be making.

Hard to tell about Macca at the moment, they've not had a representative go yet.

 

[CSMonkeh]

Just seen highlights;
Nice move on Stroll on Sainz(?) but was unlucky to retirr

And once more the FIA prove what the F stands for….

They did have a penalty box in the pit lane where you’d serve stop-goes but IIRC they stopped because at least one race there was a backlog and so cars delayed serving penalties….
I might be misremembering

Verstappen having driveshaft issues 2 days in a row May suggest a chink in the armour after all

 

[Goksly]

Think everyone is being a bit broad with the copy statements - they've copied the philosophy. They've got a merc engine and gearbox. But they've done their own thing with the components and philosophy.

 

[cuke2u]

Has a merc rear end doesn't it?

So does the Mclaren..

 

[cuke2u]

Just seen highlights;
Nice move on Stroll on Sainz(?) but was unlucky to retirr

And once more the FIA prove what the F stands for….

They did have a penalty box in the pit lane where you’d serve stop-goes but IIRC they stopped because at least one race there was a backlog and so cars delayed serving penalties….
I might be misremembering

Verstappen having driveshaft issues 2 days in a row May suggest a chink in the armour after all

It's a part that can be modified without impacting the budget too much..

 

[Mesai]

So does the Mclaren..

The problem is that McLaren built the rest of the car...

 

[mid_gen]

I love F1 but I'm going to bring up something I've said before. It's little to do with the drivers and almost everything to do with the cars. It doesn't really matter how good a driver you are. Sure, the occasional GP is won in slower cars under certain circumstances such as a car breaking down, a crash or bad team strategy. But if you don't have the fastest car you will never win a whole championship. In that respect, I think it's quite an unfair sport. Any one of those drivers today could drive a Redbull and win the championship. Who disagrees? Has any F1 WDC ever been won in any year by a driver without the fastest car?

You're right it's the cars, they are the problem. At least in the past the cars could race each other without the driver behind having a go faster button.

Years ago it might have been exciting watching a faster car starting at the back of the grid battle their way up the field.....now you have to listen to the hyperbole as pressing the DRS button is hyped up as being some breathtaking spectacle.

No late breaking, no pushing the car to its limits, no daring overtakes....just edge closer until you're in 'go faster' range and press the button. Utter borefest.

 

[Flibster]

What are these dubious practices you speak of? Off the top of my head I don't recall any car design / operating scandals from Red Bull.

Just off the top of my head

Breaching the budget cap
Rubber mounted front wing flap
Flexing rear wing
Fuel flow limit breach

 

[Scam]

That's not to mention the ****stirring that Horner and Helmut get up to - which arguably has just a worse an effect on the sport's public image.

 

[alchal]

After verstappen took the title against Hamilton did the stewards not say they couldn't change who finished where?

If so how do they explain Alonso??

 

[cuke2u]

The problem is that McLaren built the rest of the car...

Of course, but, if I'm correct, that was not what the post was implying about the AM. I would think all cars that run the Mercedes engine/gearbox would also need to have the rear suspension from Mercedes as well.

Point of fact that no one team are directly permitted to blatantly copy aero parts. If any teams did then the others' would be baying for their blood.

The Mclaren problem is they went down a particular development black hole, then found they needed to change direction. Thus playing catchup, plus their new wind tunnel is only coming on song later in the season.

Unlike Mercedes who stubbornly stuck with something that clearly doesn't work.

 

[SoliD]

Of course, but, if I'm correct, that was not what the post was implying about the AS. I would think all cars that run the Mercedes engine/gearbox would also need to have the rear suspension from Mercedes as well.

Point of fact that no one team are directly permitted to blatantly copy aero parts. If any teams did then the others' would be baying for their blood.

The Mclaren problem is they went down a particular development black hole, then found they needed to change direction. Thus playing catchup, plus their new wind tunnel is only coming on song later in the season.

Unlike Mercedes who stubbornly stuck with something that clearly doesn't work.

If it doesn't work completely how is Brazil last year explained at a track in the era before they struggled at (2021 excluded with the super engine)

 

[cuke2u]

If it doesn't work completely how is Brazil last year explained at a track in the era before they struggled at (2021 excluded with the super engine)

If what doesn't work? You are alluding to AM's performance at Brazil, but that has nothing to do with anything. AM started to develop their 2023 car early on, sacrificing the rest of last season because they realised that the 2022 car had no potential.

 

[SoliD]

Sorry read that as Merc!

 

[cuke2u]

Sorry read that as Merc!

Ah then my apologies also..

 

[Mr Jack]

Unlike Mercedes who stubbornly stuck with something that clearly doesn't work.

In the last four races of last season, Merc got a win and three second places. Not bad for something that "clearly doesn't work".

Also, the history of F1 is littered with concepts that didn't work when they were first introduced before smashing it in the second year.

 

[SoliD]

Ah then my apologies also..

Sorry replied too quickly, was referring to your last line as per Mr Jack

Seeing Verstappens mood post race and his comments it seems to be toxic between him and Perez, wonder if we'll see Perez getting his elbows out at any point or if he'll be the submissive team mate that he has shown so far. With a car as dominant as the RBR it's similar to 2014/15/16 with Mercedes, although Verstappen is clearly much faster than Perez. Melbourne could be interesting as it's not been a happy hunting ground for Max from memory.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Sorry replied too quickly, was referring to your last line as per Mr Jack

Seeing Verstappens mood post race and his comments it seems to be toxic between him and Perez, wonder if we'll see Perez getting his elbows out at any point or if he'll be the submissive team mate that he has shown so far. With a car as dominant as the RBR it's similar to 2014/15/16 with Mercedes, although Verstappen is clearly much faster than Perez. Melbourne could be interesting as it's not been a happy hunting ground for Max from memory.

Having Danny Ric waiting in the side-lines is going to be quite motivating for Perez.

 

[englishpremier]

Having Danny Ric waiting in the side-lines is going to be quite motivating for Perez.

Shame they can't have three cars haha. As Danni Richard would likely give Max much more of a fight.

IIRC Repsol Honda in MotoGP once had Casey Stoner, Dani Pedrosa, and Antonio Dovizioso all racing for them in the same season.

 

[SoliD]

Having Danny Ric waiting in the side-lines is going to be quite motivating for Perez.

Hope so, reckon the car would suit Danny Rics driving style too!