Poll: Official 2024 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread - Hungaroring, Budapest - Race 13/24

[Emlyn_Dewar]

I view that collision as 5-second penalty worthy but it's always funny to see how people react differently when it's Max involved, especially to the driver they may fanboi for... I still haven't seen the onboard, but from watching the race it did just seem an opportunistic move, with expectation on the other driver to accommodate (and I'm glad he didn't). For sure™ the backmarker changes it slightly.
Someone else mentioned it in the last race thread, or 2 races ago thread, but I don't remember anywhere near the level of outrage and vitriol when Hamilton completely destroyed Piastri, smashing him out of a great position at Monza that time, and in my eyes that was far worse of a move.
Chill out.

Maybe both Hamilton and Verstappen share something in common, "this guy only knows how to start and drive in first"?

 

[Feek]

Stewards decision aside, Max did exactly what he said Lando shouldn't have done in Austria. 'You can't just dive bomb up the inside'. It's not the first time he's been a complete hypocrite regarding racing incidents.

Nail, hammer, head.

This is the reason people are frustrated. He’s done exactly what he claimed someone else was doing but to an even greater extent and caused an accident.

Max does what Max wants. If someone else does it, he complains but in his mind, it’s perfectly fine for him to do it. It’s how he’s always been, he doesn’t seem capable of change.

 

[Mesai]

I view that collision as 5-second penalty worthy but it's always funny to see how people react differently when it's Max involved, especially to the driver they may fanboi for... I still haven't seen the onboard, but from watching the race it did just seem an opportunistic move, with expectation on the other driver to accommodate (and I'm glad he didn't). For sure™ the backmarker changes it slightly.
Someone else mentioned it in the last race thread, or 2 races ago thread, but I don't remember anywhere near the level of outrage and vitriol when Hamilton completely destroyed Piastri, smashing him out of a great position at Monza that time, and in my eyes that was far worse of a move.
Chill out.

Maybe both Hamilton and Verstappen share something in common, "this guy only knows how to start and drive in first"?

This. Lewis drove into Sainz, forcing him off the track in Spain, and all you see from the Max haters is "overtake of the year, omg he's so good".

Max was unlikely to make that corner; at the very least he was going to go wide. Offending driver aside, you'd think that Lewis would have checked his mirrors and not turned in to avoid possibly ruining his own race. Same happened with Lando in Austria but with a worse outcome - Lando got aggressive when he could've turned in earlier and made a clean overtake on Max.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

I don't see much point in giving a time penalty if the driver they hit suffered no problems and the driver who instigated it lost a position. If Hamilton had been effected negatively I feel it would have got a time penalty

 

[andy_mk3]

I don't see much point in giving a time penalty if the driver they hit suffered no problems and the driver who instigated it lost a position. If Hamilton had been effected negatively I feel it would have got a time penalty

Causing a collision should be treated the same way regardless of the outcome. It was a bit of luck that they both came out of it with no damage. But that could have easily taken Hamilton out of the race.

 

[Scam]

I don't see much point in giving a time penalty if the driver they hit suffered no problems and the driver who instigated it lost a position. If Hamilton had been effected negatively I feel it would have got a time penalty

The stewards have to be consistent regardless of the outcome. If they don’t penalise moves like this one- drivers like Max will keep trying it on. I’d say with a dive bomb down the inside it’s more likely the car being overtaken will get spun or damaged, so the risk of them going unpunished is that drivers might think the risk is worth it. Some already do, obviously..

 

[Mesai]

I don't see much point in giving a time penalty if the driver they hit suffered no problems and the driver who instigated it lost a position. If Hamilton had been effected negatively I feel it would have got a time penalty

It makes sense that there was no penalty for the actual incident given the outcome, data and driver feedback, so the only type of penalty would be a warning.

Has it happened before where there was no damage and the offending car lost places, but a penalty was served?

 

[GravyMonster]

Has it happened before where there was no damage and the offending car lost places, but a penalty was served?

Ocon got a 10s stop/go for taking Verstappen out of the lead in Brazil 2018.

 

[Mesai]

Ocon got a 10s stop/go for taking Verstappen out of the lead in Brazil 2018.

Ok, but Ocon damaged Max's car and caused Max to lose position. I should have added that the affected car didn't lose places.

Would also need to look at something more recent since the stewards change standards with the seasons.

 

[Dup]

For me it's the clear attitude he had over the radio. He was clearly purposefully overdriving the car and seeing red which led to that situation.

Should we allow that? Is that just racing and adding character? Maybe when it doesn't end up in a collision. I feel the stewards should have taken that into account, especially given it was investigated after the race so couldn't add more fuel to the fire.

I feel a sense of entitlement from him. He had to put effort into the pass and got impatient because it wasn't happening fast enough. He's really not an endearing character at times. All champs, especially now they're much younger than days of old, have had some immaturity and off moments but Max takes the biscuit hence many posts about it days later.

I think he'll do a Rosberg at and not end up in the sport for another decade like some other champions and frankly I think that's a good thing.

 

[t2na]

Someone else mentioned it in the last race thread, or 2 races ago thread, but I don't remember anywhere near the level of outrage and vitriol when Hamilton completely destroyed Piastri, smashing him out of a great position at Monza that time, and in my eyes that was far worse of a move.
Chill out.

The significant difference here is that Hamilton received a penalty for the incident - and immediately apologised on the radio and then in person to Piastri. Piastri even stated in the post race interview that Hamilton had come to find him immediately to apologise and 'there's not many drivers who do that'.

I have no idea how you think it was a worst move, Piastri is in Hamilton's blind spot as Hamilton moves across and causes the collision. It's caused by Hamilton, it's his fault and he rightly gets the penalty.

Max sends a move down the inside with no chance of making the corner, no chance of stopping in time and causes a collision - then immediately complains on the radio, refuses to apologise post-race and even in the stewards session doesn't take responsibility for it.

It really is amazing what lengths people will go to in order to defend Max and his driving standards at times. He's a phenomenal racer but the incidents and his actions post-race are what causes the post-race discussion to be this way.

 

[Mr Jack]

Ocon got a 10s stop/go for taking Verstappen out of the lead in Brazil 2018.

They were wrong then too. That was Max's fault and Ocon shouldn't have been penalised. Max should have got a harsher penalty for shoving Ocon in the aftermath of that too.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

Causing a collision should be treated the same way regardless of the outcome. It was a bit of luck that they both came out of it with no damage. But that could have easily taken Hamilton out of the race.

If you start penalising for every bit of contact it will get too much and drivers will be scared to try bold moves, this was the reasoning for why they often base their penalties on whatever the outcome of the incident is. If there is no negative outcome for anyone other than the offender then it makes some sense to not penalise them. That said if someone does something really moronic that is genuinely dangerous then it shouldn't matter what the outcome was... I wouldn't class Verstappens collision on Sunday as being in that category though.

 

[Jimbeam3678]

Offending driver aside, you'd think that Lewis would have checked his mirrors and not turned in to avoid possibly ruining his own race. Same happened with Lando in Austria but with a worse outcome - Lando got aggressive when he could've turned in earlier and made a clean overtake on Max.

Lewis tried this throughout 2021 season, and people then said he needed to stand his ground more. I guess he avoided Max then because he was chasing world title and had lots to lose. This season he has less to lose than Max and has turned for the corner at the same time he had on previous laps.

I actually find Max's driving attitudes and temper tantrums hugely entertaining - that doesn't mean its great racing.

 

[Feek]

that doesn't mean its great racing.

He races on track how people race when they're online.

 

[Mesai]

Causing a collision should be treated the same way regardless of the outcome. It was a bit of luck that they both came out of it with no damage. But that could have easily taken Hamilton out of the race.

That's a terrible rule. A significant number of incidents are just part of racing (if you exclude the bias that some people have).

Based on what people are saying in this thread, this overtake should be penalised. Made contact and didn't leave a cars width at t2 (I love Karun saying "leaves plenty racing room").

https://www.skysports.com/f1/video/...amilton-squeezes-past-carlos-sainz-to-take-p6

 

[Jimbeam3678]

That's a terrible rule. A significant number of incidents are just part of racing (if you exclude the bias that some people have).

Based on what people are saying in this thread, this overtake should be penalised. Made contact and didn't leave a cars width at t2 (I love Karun saying "leaves plenty racing room").

https://www.skysports.com/f1/video/...amilton-squeezes-past-carlos-sainz-to-take-p6

Thats assuming you have 2 grownups at the steering wheel of the car. Both have respect for each other.

 

[cuke2u]

If you start penalising for every bit of contact it will get too much and drivers will be scared to try bold moves, this was the reasoning for why they often base their penalties on whatever the outcome of the incident is. If there is no negative outcome for anyone other than the offender then it makes some sense to not penalise them. That said if someone does something really moronic that is genuinely dangerous then it shouldn't matter what the outcome was... I wouldn't class Verstappens collision on Sunday as being in that category though.

If the stewards start coming down hard on every racing incident then there will be complaints that they are interfering too much. Can't have it both ways...

 

[Mesai]

Thats assuming you have 2 grownups at the steering wheel of the car. Both have respect for each other.

They could be the best of friends, but when the adrenaline is going and there are points at stake, things change.

The video I posted is a good example - doubt either of them had malicious intent, but it would be penalty-worthy based on what some people are saying.

 

[Scam]

(snip) It really is amazing what lengths people will go to in order to defend Max and his driving standards at times.

Great post. 100% agree.

That said if someone does something really moronic that is genuinely dangerous then it shouldn't matter what the outcome was... I wouldn't class Verstappens collision on Sunday as being in that category though.

There’s a fine line between an incident being ‘nothing’ and being extremely dangerous. What’s to say if they’d have made contact in a slightly different way then Verstappen might have gone flying over Lewis’s head again? Or he might have flipped his own car. Stranger things have happened.

As said above, going into a corner out of control, too fast, no chance of making the corner is stupid at best and dangerous at worst. It’s also the very definition of causing a collision.

On the flip side, if this wasn’t Max and was Stroll or someone then I’m sure 100% of this forum would be denouncing the move.