It's biblical that the downfall of his own beloved team is down to the inability to keep it in his trousers. What a guy. I can see Max in that Merc '26.
Poll: Official 2024 Italian Grand Prix Race Thread - Autodromo Nazionale Monza - Race 16/24
- Thread starter chrismscotland
- Start date
- Status
Staying quiet about what? Perez barely finishes in the points and everyone is fairly vocal about how rubbish he is. The only team orders Perez gets is to stop driving so slowly.I think RB fans are currently torn between staying quiet, or talking absolute jibberish like arguing that their competitors shouldn't be using team orders because it damages the racing.. conveniently forgetting they've been using team orders for years now, and there's currently 7 cars on the grid that could realistically win a race on any given day
Equating Max/Perez to Oscar/Lando is a wild take. Team orders are rarely good for racing, but I can accept them when there's a clear #2, which McLaren doesn't have.
The fact that the RB appears to be the fourth fastest car now.
But that's the discussion. If one of your drivers cannot realistically win the WDC and your other driver can, does that not make the former a no.2 driver?
I know Twitter/X is a minefield but I assure you the RB fans are acutely aware of the situation that they find themselves in.
Associate
No? Of course not.
Schumacher coming back after his leg break to try and help Irvine win the title didn’t make him a no.2 driver. He even won 2 of the races that season after his comeback!
Last edited:
Associate
Do Red Bull actually have fans that aren't Max or Checo fans ?
Can't say I've ever met anyone who actively supports them as a team unless their favourite driver is driving for them.
Granted that's the case to a certain extent with other teams (Hamilton fans switching allegiance from McLaren to Merc for example) but at least the other big teams have a long history in the automotive industry as well as obviously manufacturing cars... people are fans of their products.
Red Bull is just a team that exists purely to sell energy drinks. They don't really have a product which would make people love them as a company. Perhaps I'm living in a cave and there are actually people who get as obsessive over an energy drink as they do a LaFerrari or whatever
Can't say I've ever met anyone who actively supports them as a team unless their favourite driver is driving for them.
Granted that's the case to a certain extent with other teams (Hamilton fans switching allegiance from McLaren to Merc for example) but at least the other big teams have a long history in the automotive industry as well as obviously manufacturing cars... people are fans of their products.
Red Bull is just a team that exists purely to sell energy drinks. They don't really have a product which would make people love them as a company. Perhaps I'm living in a cave and there are actually people who get as obsessive over an energy drink as they do a LaFerrari or whatever
Last edited:
I guess if you ignore every other race this season. McLaren have the quickest car, and then it's whoever between RB, Ferrari and Merc get their setup right.
Then it should be easy for Norris to out-drive him, especially when starting from pole...
I don't think many people support just a team. How many Lewis fans are going to stay Merc fans after he moves to Ferrari?
Most drivers also have a fan group from their home country.
Last edited:
Associate
Red Bull also saved Formula 1 from dropping to 8 teams in 2005/2006 when they bought both Jaguar and then Minardi.
It’s easy to think that they are just an energy drink company and this is their very expensive advertising budget - but they clearly support and value the sport and we shouldn’t immediately discount them actually having people who support them.
Up until Webber retired, my mum was a Red Bull fan (exclusively because of Webber) and whilst I’ve always been a Williams/McLaren fan because of who I watched growing up, I still really enjoyed Vettel’s wins in 2010 and 2012.
Modern day F1, and especially since drive to survive, has made Red Bull more the ‘villains’ and Horner has sort of really leant into that which probably doesn’t help build the fan base so it really does come from the drivers.
Last edited:
I’ll rephrase it. Does that not mean the former driver should be put into a role that supports the leading driver in pursuit of the WDC… Think about it that way. It’s almost daft not to.
To be fair Red Bull have been involved in motorsport and F1 in particular for a long time before they ever bought a team; they were massive partners to Sauber for a long time from the mid 90's to 2004 and invested heavily in young drivers long before they had a team of their own.
They might "just be an energy drink" company but they've already outlasted the involvement of some car companies (Toyota, BMW, Alfa Romeo among others)
Caporegime
Red Bull has better sports pedigree than most car brands, they're involved in a host of different things from soap box cars to stunt planes through mountain biking.
Even in F1, whilst I might not like some of their more prominent staff, they've done a huge amount to give young drivers opportunities. How many current drivers came through their academy?
Even in F1, whilst I might not like some of their more prominent staff, they've done a huge amount to give young drivers opportunities. How many current drivers came through their academy?
Associate
I think both can be true.
McLaren should be doing more to ensure their driver closest to Max in the championship is prioritised, especially when there is a genuine chance of winning it.
Norris should be doing more with the opportunities he has and showing that he’s a title winning driver.
To be fair to Norris, he is 44 points ahead of Piastri and beaten him 10 out of 16 races even with a DNF caused by Max.
I mean just last week he totally dominated in Zandavort and Piastri was miles off his pace.
Sure, he has weak starts. A lot of it think comes from being a little pragmatic in terms of avoiding a turn 1 retirement. However it's clear that Norris is faster than Piastri more often than not at the moment.
If I was McLaren I'd absolutely be prioritising Norris for the rest of the season, and would have done so from a fair few races back.
Last edited:
Soldato
I know the problem is they have two young, and very capable drivers, who both could easily win a WDC. However I don't think at the start of the season they thought they could get the WCC let alone one of the drivers be within a chance of WDC, so perhaps things have been agreed and they don't want to renege on that and upset/lose either driver.
Quite possibly. However that seems very short sighted of them if true.
If they want to win titles, prioritise Norris now (well... about 4 races ago..) and give them the first half of next season to battle it out and see how the land lies.
I guess there’s a possibility things were agreed when signing Piastri as well maybe? Maybe he has a get out if they start issuing team orders against him? Dunno. Or maybe like most, they’re super impressed with him and scared of upsetting him!
Associate
- Joined
- 25 Oct 2005
- Posts
- 466
We'll probably never know, but to me this is the likely scenario - that Piastri signed with something along the lines of not being asked to be a number 2 driver unless it's mathematically impossible for him to win & mathematically possible for Norris. And/or that McLaren had the talks at the start of the season and agreed how it would play out.
He's had 4 seasons less than Norris and I don't think he's too far behind; I think McLaren see him as their future more than, or at least equal to, Norris, so why annoy him for them slim chance they've got of winning the WDC. Especially when disharmony in the team puts serious risk on the WCC when in reality, I'm sure they care about that more than the WDC.
Personally, I'd much rather everyone racing than watching a race dictated by team orders. I'd like Verstappen not to win a 4th, but I'd be content with it not being a walkover.
Soldato
Let's be thankful Piastri made the move in this race, or it would likely have been pretty dull.
I think some don't care in there's racing or not, they just don't want Max to get another WDC.
I think some don't care in there's racing or not, they just don't want Max to get another WDC.
- Status