*****Official Ashes thread*****

garriec said:
Cricket is so backwards.
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You mean using tech to get to the right decision?

Ignore the caught behind. The umpire gave him for that and it was not out.

Hawkeye has a margin for error. Therefore if it's within that margin for error, they base the decision on the umpire's original decision. The umpire did not give him out LBW originally. Therefore when the ball was within the margin for error, it was not given out correctly.

What's wrong with that?

Edit: I take Gilly's point that the umpire didn't have the option to give him LBW as well - however, the umpire believed he had hit the ball. He therefore couldn't have then said "I think it's LBW" without coming across as an idiot.
 
but like Gilly says if the umpire gave him out caught then the umpire didn't make a 'call' on whether it was LBW or not, the right decision was out LBW surely? this DRS system is leaving a right sour taste in mouths.
 
manic111 said:
You mean using tech to get to the right decision?

Ignore the caught behind. The umpire gave him for that and it was not out.

Hawkeye has a margin for error. Therefore if it's within that margin for error, they base the decision on the umpire's original decision. The umpire did not give him out LBW originally. Therefore when the ball was within the margin for error, it was not given out correctly.

What's wrong with that?

Edit: I take Gilly's point that the umpire didn't have the option to give him LBW as well - however, the umpire believed he had hit the ball. He therefore couldn't have then said "I think it's LBW" without coming across as an idiot.
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What's wrong with it is that the umpire didn't make a call re: lbw, so how can you go with it?

He didn't make a decision either way regarding lbw. It was irrelevant at the time.
 
manic111 said:
He impliedly made a call by saying that he believed that batsman hit the ball. If he believed he hit the ball, he can't be LBW.
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You cannot infer a non-lbw call on the fact that he didn't hit if but he thought he did.

The batsman was out. Therefore he should be out. It matters not a jot that the umpire gave it out caught behind.

To me that could be an argument if the fielding team asked for a particular type of dismissal. They didn't, they just made an out call.

He was out lbw.
 
Pighardia said:
The rules should be concentrated more on getting decisions correct than not hurting umpires feelings!
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It's not about their feelings, it's an acceptance that there is a margin for error. That ball was shaving the top of off stump based on its assumed path by Hawkeye.

With a one or two percent margin for error, which there is, the ball may have missed.

The best thing to do in that situation is to ask the umpire whether or not he believed at the time that it was LBW, which for all we know happened.
 
manic111 said:
He impliedly made a call by saying that he believed that batsman hit the ball. If he believed he hit the ball, he can't be LBW.
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But we don't know that the umpire wouldn't have considered lbw if he didn't think that Rogers had hit it...

(Too many negatives in that sentence :o)
 
Doohickey said:
But we don't know that the umpire wouldn't have considered lbw if he didn't think that Rogers had hit it...
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Yes, and that's the real crux of this one.

That the umpire made what was ultimately the wrong decision in thinking it was caught behind meant that lbw couldn't be given even though it was out.
 
Gilly said:
Yes, and that's the real crux of this one.

That the umpire made what was ultimately the wrong decision in thinking it was caught behind meant that lbw couldn't be given even though it was out.
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That's a big assumption based on the margin for error in Hawkeye.

Edit: ^^ How do you know? They said "the third umpire is now asking about the LBW". How do you know who he was asking? If they didn't, I agree that they ought to, and there are clearly still problems with DRS. In that instance though, I think the right decision was made due to how marginal the LBW was, and how unlikely it was that the umpire gave him out for that.
 
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Gilly said:
Yes, and that's the real crux of this one.

That the umpire made what was ultimately the wrong decision in thinking it was caught behind meant that lbw couldn't be given even though it was out.
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Yep, agreed. This is the problem with 'umpire's call'. It forced the umpire to go back to his original and ultimately wrong decision. So basically Rogers shouldn't be out, because the umpire's call was not out lbw, but at the same time, he should have been out, because the umpire was wrong. :o
 
Back from holidays, so tend not to post on the forums whilst I'm away...but avidly been listening. Just read back through the thread some interesting opinions. The lbw/caught behind saga is interesting but I agree with gilly. Listening to tms and the transparent sleeve applied to bats outfoxxing hotspot is another good debate, but I think its the technologies responsibility to change with the bats not the other way around. As Vaughan said this morning on tms buying his lad a £350 bat with out a protective sleeve is a real no no, it's needs it for the longevity of the bat.
 
manic111 said:
That's a big assumption based on the margin for error in Hawkeye.

Edit: ^^ How do you know? They said "the third umpire is now asking about the LBW". How do you know who he was asking? If they didn't, I agree that they ought to, and there are clearly still problems with DRS. In that instance though, I think the right decision was made due to how marginal the LBW was, and how unlikely it was that the umpire gave him out for that.
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How do I know it was ultimately the wrong decision? Because he never hit it :confused:
 
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