*** Official Dota 2 Thread ***

No1newts said:
You can drag yourself up if you are good enough, if you aren't getting higher it's because you aren't good enough to be in higher MMR. It's an uncomfortable truth but it's true. I thought I was better than I was, I wasn't I got better then shot up about 600mmr in a week or two. Keep practicing and you will improve, fact.

With the above in mind I do think it is slightly distorted. You need to substantially better to drag a team up. As in I went 2.2 to 2.6, I believe I'm about a 3k player (I play with a 3.2k mate and I more than hold my own) but I won't be able to carry myself to 3k until I'm playing way better again and I can completely smash those around you. So play at 3.3-3.4 to get myself up to 3k. Just my theory :)

Ultimately though, be good and you can solo carry and improve.
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It's definitely not because I am not good enough, to drop from 3k to 2k, if you view my matches and know me well enough, I have had an barrage of matches over the last few months that (without going into too much detail) plunged me down the mmr ladder.

If your entire team is trash, or the enemy team abandon and gets bonus goldrate, troll feeding then you ultimately will drop, no question about it.

I had about 50% of my matches over the last few weeks go bad due to these reasons, and there was no way of bringing it back.

I love playing support, but ultimately, if you get a carry who is adamant about staying in the jungle the whole match and doesn't join in teamfights, people who go back to trilane's solo and die repeatedly, no ultimate on certain characters can absolutely destroy your teamfights.

the list is endless, and can absolutely say unless you're at the 5k skill level, and dedicate you're entire life to this game, You're just at the mercy of these dastardly players, whom give you no joy.

(I did actually get back to 2.3k after a streak win with Drow ranger, but I then ended up in matches as above, where atleast 2 players won't co-operate, feed etc and you just end up getting players base sit/abandon/feed, it was at this point I gave up)
 
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Sinny said:
It's definitely not because I am not good enough, to drop from 3k to 2k, if you view my matches and know me well enough, I have had an barrage of matches over the last few months that (without going into too much detail) plunged me down the mmr ladder.

If your entire team is trash, or the enemy team abandon and gets bonus goldrate, troll feeding then you ultimately will drop, no question about it.

I had about 50% of my matches over the last few weeks go bad due to these reasons, and there was no way of bringing it back.

I love playing support, but ultimately, if you get a carry who is adamant about staying in the jungle the whole match and doesn't join in teamfights, people who go back to trilane's solo and die repeatedly, no ultimate on certain characters can absolutely destroy your teamfights.

the list is endless, and can absolutely say unless you're at the 5k skill level, and dedicate you're entire life to this game, You're just at the mercy of these dastardly players, whom give you no joy.

(I did actually get back to 2.3k after a streak win with Drow ranger, but I then ended up in matches as above, where atleast 2 players won't co-operate, feed etc and you just end up getting players base sit/abandon/feed, it was at this point I gave up)
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Surely law of average would suggest this happens to the opposition as much as it does your team (more or less).
Also, and I don't mean to have a go, but why are you so sure that 2K is the wrong MMR and 3K is the right MMR? Why could 3K not have been the wrong MMR and 2K be the right MMR?

I think everyone (or a lot of people) are the same though and think they should be higher MMR because of this or because of that. They lose games because other people in their team are idiots but win games based on skill (not because 1 or 2 players on the other team lost it for them). If someone dies 3 vs 1 it's because their team wasn't helping them out, not because they wondered off alone, too far away from the team where they didn't have enough vision.

TL;DR
The motto of everyone that plays Dota 2 is basically "It's everyone else's fault that I lost, but it's mostly me when I win"
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
Surely law of average would suggest this happens to the opposition as much as it does your team (more or less).
Also, and I don't mean to have a go, but why are you so sure that 2K is the wrong MMR and 3K is the right MMR? Why could 3K not have been the wrong MMR and 2K be the right MMR?

I think everyone (or a lot of people) are the same though and think they should be higher MMR because of this or because of that. They lose games because other people in their team are idiots but win games based on skill (not because 1 or 2 players on the other team lost it for them). If someone dies 3 vs 1 it's because their team wasn't helping them out, not because they wondered off alone, too far away from the team where they didn't have enough vision.

TL;DR
The motto of everyone that plays Dota 2 is basically "It's everyone else's fault that I lost, but it's mostly me when I win"
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True, I used to think that all the time, in time you do realise that you ultimately play where you should MMR wise. There may be some slight discrepancies (talking a couple hundred MMR) but you sit where you should on the balance. Took me ages to admit it to myself that I wasn't as pro as my mind told me I was :p
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
Surely law of average would suggest this happens to the opposition as much as it does your team (more or less).
Also, and I don't mean to have a go, but why are you so sure that 2K is the wrong MMR and 3K is the right MMR? Why could 3K not have been the wrong MMR and 2K be the right MMR?

I think everyone (or a lot of people) are the same though and think they should be higher MMR because of this or because of that. They lose games because other people in their team are idiots but win games based on skill (not because 1 or 2 players on the other team lost it for them). If someone dies 3 vs 1 it's because their team wasn't helping them out, not because they wondered off alone, too far away from the team where they didn't have enough vision.

TL;DR
The motto of everyone that plays Dota 2 is basically "It's everyone else's fault that I lost, but it's mostly me when I win"
Click to expand...

I can see the point, but I really think that this isn't the case.

Why is a system judging people based on abandoned matches. Any other game I've been fine with losing, because I can still class score myself based on my performance in that match.

In Dota, if someone is jilting the entire match then I really can't assume if I would've been good at all because I've been cornered due to my picking choice or the fact that my opposition has a massive advantage due to no fault of my own.

I know things can be unfair, But I can't assess whether or not I could pull myself out of this due to other people actively throwing matches because they're upset they've died a few times (or for whatever reason).

I don't generally think this is my own issue, I think it's a complication that comes with the MOBA genre in general.

I think you have to be in the position of games going extremely badly to know whether or not this is the case to be honest.
 
Sinny said:
I can see the point, but I really think that this isn't the case.

Why is a system judging people based on abandoned matches. Any other game I've been fine with losing, because I can still class score myself based on my performance in that match.

In Dota, if someone is jilting the entire match then I really can't assume if I would've been good at all because I've been cornered due to my picking choice or the fact that my opposition has a massive advantage due to no fault of my own.

I know things can be unfair, But I can't assess whether or not I could pull myself out of this due to other people actively throwing matches because they're upset they've died a few times (or for whatever reason).

I don't generally think this is my own issue, I think it's a complication that comes with the MOBA genre in general.

I think you have to be in the position of games going extremely badly to know whether or not this is the case to be honest.
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I know and agree it feels harsh that you lose MMR when someone else on your team quits. In the same way it's unfair that you gain MMR if someone on the other team quits (people seem to complain about that less though). But it'd be too open to abuse if you didn't lose MMR because someone on your team quit.
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
I know and agree it feels harsh that you lose MMR when someone else on your team quits. In the same way it's unfair that you gain MMR if someone on the other team quits (people seem to complain about that less though). But it'd be too open to abuse if you didn't lose MMR because someone on your team quit.
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To be honest it's made me lose all interest in the game. I've always enjoyed competitive games. But the abusive nature of this game has led me to get more annoyed than I should at a game. For its sole purpose is fun, it isn't for me at the minute.

This rocket league sounds fun. Might try that for a while.
 
Reminds me of a thread I saw on reddit where the title was something like "I love this game, but I hate playing it". Pretty much sums up my relationship with DOTA too.

I think the ranked system needs some revision anyway. If you've got a player who is 2k MMR, the matchmaking system should give more incentive to them trying different things and just getting better at the game in general rather than obsessing over raising their MMR by spamming Leshrac mid or whatever.
 
You can get better without obsessing over MMR, just play normal games to improve. Play all random, complete the 100 odd hero challenge, just expand your hero pool and learn the game more. I started doing that and not only do you improve its (a bit) less stressful losing a normal game as nothing is really on the line, then when you feel ready go into MMR and improve.
 
well I've had another streak of losses again, 3 of which due to people disconnecting, and then the classic problem of picking.

I swear nobody plays support, and i think i am going to stop supporting all together as well, it never helps.

If i pick a support we inevitably end up with a brain dead carry, or one of our carries disconnects leaving you up **** creek without a paddle, because believe it or not i can't carry a game with crystal maiden or winter wyvern late game...

If i pick a carry then NOBODY picks a supporting hero and you end up buying wards etc. yourself because nobody else will.

I really think i am going to stop playing ranked, it just seems to get worse and i end up feeling like i have to play heroes and roles i don't enjoy doing all the time just to try and compensate for the team.
 
Sinny said:
To be honest it's made me lose all interest in the game. I've always enjoyed competitive games. But the abusive nature of this game has led me to get more annoyed than I should at a game. For its sole purpose is fun, it isn't for me at the minute.

This rocket league sounds fun. Might try that for a while.
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People quit in Rocket League too.

As others have mentioned, you could always just not play ranked matches if it annoys you.
You can still improve in normal matches, you just don't have to worry about a number increasing or decreasing at the end of the match.

I think to some degree it depends what you play the game for. If you play to win then you'll get annoyed when you lose (which seems to be around 50% of the time for most people), if you play for fun then maybe you'll be able to find something to enjoy in most matches.

As for nobody picking support, this is something that I've definitely noticed. I don't play support well, there's so much you need to do as a support. I'm not saying carry is easy, but the role is more focused I feel, it's basically 'farm'. I do enjoy some support/semi-support heroes though, which is awkward as people assume I'll do all the support role stuff.
Public games do seem bad (at least at my level) for team balance. Some games are about 5 carries (or 4 and a semi-carry) and others are 3 supports, an offlaner (probably playing mid) and no late game carry.
 
Start game;

"sniper why are you going top with Husk, why not go bottom with Io?"
"**** you I'm top"

20mins in, Sniper has fed 9 kills.

"Alchemist (thats me) you suck"
"What have I done?"
"All you have done is farm"
"Which would have been fine, but what about the 4 assists I have?"
"**** you, you suck"

Game last another 5mins with constant abuse from Sniper before we lose :D some people are simply beyond redemption :D
 
well just lost another 2 games, both due to people feeding then "disconnecting" now my mmr is fallen below 2000, the joy.

Anyway I decided to have a look through some of my games on dota buff to see what might be going on, and out of the past 10 solo ranked games, i have lost every single one, and 5 of those games involved somebody on my team abandoning. it just seems stupid i have lost 125mmr solely because of other people leaving. Am i the only person this is happening to something seems badly broken :(

Sorry I only seem to come in this thread to rant but I cant actually remember the last time I had a good game. perhaps i need to force myself to quit for a very long time...
 
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DazQ87 said:
well just lost another 2 games, both due to people feeding then "disconnecting" now my mmr is fallen below 2000, the joy.

Anyway I decided to have a look through some of my games on dota buff to see what might be going on, and out of the past 10 solo ranked games, i have lost every single one, and 5 of those games involved somebody on my team abandoning. it just seems stupid i have lost 125mmr solely because of other people leaving. Am i the only person this is happening to something seems badly broken :(

Sorry I only seem to come in this thread to rant but I cant actually remember the last time I had a good game. perhaps i need to force myself to quit for a very long time...
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you're not the only one. I've left the game after playing it since early release. Might come back to it at some point. but I had feeding carries and people abandoning 50% of my games.

I'm in no shape or formore a bad player. but definitely not 2k.

I'd advise having a break. I can't handle it when games can last an hour and half of them are unbalanced to crap. isn't what I play for.
 
I have had a run of terrible games recently. And of the games I have won (3) two where a complete walk over like the other team were all brand new. The other one was a good fight to which I (humbly) feel I made all the difference as omni vs a bunch of right clickers equals easy team fights! That said the rest of my matches have been terrible, no matter how well I play (and I won't claim to have been good every time) the other team were either vastly better or my team had one or two terrible players. I do try not to flame but I have on more than a few occasions asked if this is the first match playing the character or whether they have let a friend use their account because I refuse to believe that they are the same skill as me when I am sure I could do better even on my worst days whilst half blind, drunk and barely even awake whilst playing Meepo! Was almost up to 3.5k MMR before reborn since playing on the beta I have just had crap after crap so that I am only at 3.1kmmr now. Not the only one either chap I play with has been anywhere from 3.8k to 3.2k and back again. He is generally very consistent but the teams..... Just the other day he had an Ursa that sat in jungle all game and farmed a devine then ran up mid and sat under tier three tower until he died and gave them the rapier. Didn't say a word throughout was just there to throw the game!
 
Im up and down at the mo with more losses than wins.

Last game gyro instantly said he was feeding all game because someone picked Riki, told him to stfu and grow up and luckily he complied :p

We won but it was a horrible game. They had no carries SK, Techies, Pudge, Bane, Pugna against my team of Necro support (me) Gyro, Riki, Abad and Axe. We should have stomped them but it went on for over an hour with my team refusing to work together, kept solo pushing and getting picked off. We only won because they wiped us (bar me I retreated) they pushed mid we BB and killed them all bar techies on our t3 and pushed mid for win. Really irritating game, not all wins are fun! :p
 
Happened to catch a Wagamama stream the other day where he was talking about the idea of "I'm good but my teammates suck, which is why I lose". Did anyone else see it?

He said in his opinion it doesn't really stand up as an argument.

Basically it's silly to assume that your team is always bad and their team is always good. Their team could be just as bad as yours, except your team has you, so if you're good, it could be 1 good + 4 bad vs. 5 bad players. The odds of you constantly getting bad players vs. good ones is ridiculously small.
Apparently there was a 5K player that played a 3K account and got it up to 5K in about a month.

He did say one of the best ways to improve it to watch back your replays to spot what you did wrong. Assuming you can read the game well enough to see what you did wrong.

Although I don't think he realises how painful it is to experience my performances the first time, let alone again via replay!
 
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