** Official ** Summer 2010 Transfer Thread - Signings, Sightings and Rumor's in Here

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The difference being that Arsenal set up their team around Fabregas. He gets to control the game, being at the centre of everything. Barca don't do that. What are the international stats like in comparison?

Yet I don't see Fabregas ever dominate a game at arsenal in the way I see Arteta run a game for us at Everton. Especially against bigger teams. For my money Fabregas gets dominated in midfield far too often.

I don't really see him getting any better than his is now, players rarely do improve that much. I'd only want him if I had a player like a Viera or Keane to play alongside him to stop him getting bullied out the game.
 
The difference being that Arsenal set up their team around Fabregas. He gets to control the game, being at the centre of everything. Barca don't do that. What are the international stats like in comparison?

EDIT: Wait no, let me guess. "Uff uff uff no Messi uff uff main creative outlet uff uff more important player for Arsenal"?

Yeah, he's more important to us because he's better. Innit.
Fabregas plays with three people in front of him for Arsenal, and one (usually dire) player alongside him. So do Xavi/Iniesta (as in they have each other).
 
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Fabregas plays with three people in front of him for Arsenal, and one (usually dire) player alongside him. So do Xavi/Iniesta (as in they have each other).

Just to make sure, you are not comparing the quality of arsenals team around fabregas to the players that accompany xavi and iniesta.

How many budget premier league attackers leave and go to another small club in a country with a poor league and come out top scorer. I have heard it 4-5 times this world cup. So and so is the top scorer in the greek league and you think, I remember him playing for west ham and he was crap.

If you are a big fish in a small pond then you will score, assist and generally have better stats than a player in the best side in the world with messi knocking in 47 odd goals. Watch the champions league final against united or most other games that barcelona play and you will gush about xavi and iniesta as well.

Fabregas is good but I have never been wowed by him. Xavi and iniesta blew me away when I started watching them, stats dont tell the whole story.
 
All very well and good, except that he's a big fish in a small pond in a stronger league. Xavi and Iniesta play teams who rolled over for Barcelona every weekend. Fabregas played teams that stuck the boot into him repeatedly, defended better, and often negated the bunch of oafs that surrounded him, leaving him with more work to do.

Cut this any way you like, it strikes me that Fabregas had to do more, and did, and yet isn't worthy of the credit the other two got just for strolling round in the sun wearing purple and blue.
 
You make it sound like everything in life is put on a plate for Xavi and Iniesta. The reason they steamroller teams is because they are that good. You can't blame them for being too good for the Spanish League.

You've never seen teams try to rough up Barca either? There's probably a lot of English teams who would be weary about going to Xerez and Bilbao.
 
If they were that good, why aren't they contributing more?

This is just going to get circular.

"Xavi/Iniesta are waaaay better than Fabregas"
"Stats show they aren't"
"That's cos they don't do as much"
"Then they aren't as great"
"Yes they are!"
etc etc

Let's just agree to disagree. At no point did I ever say either Xavi or Iniesta weren't top notch players. They just clearly don't do as much as Fabregas does.
 
Different styles to Fabregas. Xavi and Fabregas are different players IMO. Xavi has no intention of charging forward like Fabregas does etc. Both are great players but different players also and I think Xavi is better player (even though its hard to compare different types of players).

As the the contributions of each, I'd say you've got the problem of misleading statistics as well.

Look at Messi's goal to make it 2-1 at home to Malaga. No assist from Xavi but his pass makes the goal really.

Even when Xavi and Iniesta aren't creating goals they are wearing teams out with constant, quick, accurate passing.
 
You've never seen teams try to rough up Barca either? There's probably a lot of English teams who would be weary about going to Xerez and Bilbao.
Agree. You only have to look at the disciplinary records of the English and Spanish teams to see which league is the dirtier of the two and it's not even close.
 
LOL, I think you'll find no-one hates Arsenal :D You do bring some of the flak on yourselves with the constant whinging (Not I'm not saying every Arsenal fan, just an unfortunate vocal minority)


Crouch has a better record for England than Rooney, does that mean he's better? Stats mean next to nothing when comparing two players. There are just so many factors to take into account that saying one number is bigger = that player is better is just naive.

He has a better goal/game ratio but when you break it down Rooney is superior in every way.

Crouch:


21 goals | 2 assists | 39 appearances
(1 goal every 1.85 games)

11 in friendlies (52%)
5 in Euro qualifers (24%)
4 in World Cup qualifiers (19%)
1 World Cup goal (5%)

17 home goals (81%)
4 away goals (19%)


Rooney:

25 goals | 6 assists | 61 appearances
(1 goal every 2.44 games)

9 in World Cup qualifiers (36%)
8 in friendlies (32%)
4 in Euro qualifiers (16%)
4 in European Championship (16%)

13 home goals (52%)
12 away goals (48%)

This wasn't aimed at you Shamikebab, but everyone who would have Crouch ahead of Rooney in the England team.
 
Other than the home and away stats, the others can be very misleading. Of course Crouch is going to have scored the majority of his goals in friendlies, he rarely plays in competitve games. You're also not taking into account the fact that a far higher proportion of Crouch's appearances having been as a sub than Rooney's.

No matter what way you look at it, Crouch's strike rate for England is better than Rooney's but never in a million years would you pick him over Rooney.
 
I agree, and it works both ways, Rooney has been playing international football since he was 17 and he's only hitting his goalscoring peak now, Crouch is older and already in his peak. I was blown away with the home/away ratio of goals more than anything. Rooney brings so much more than just goals and like you said stats don't take into account everything. I'm just a bit sick of this 'drop Rooney and play Crouch' crap. Capello should go 4-5-1 with Gerrard just behind Rooney and see how that goes.
 
Yet I don't see Fabregas ever dominate a game at arsenal in the way I see Arteta run a game for us at Everton. Especially against bigger teams. For my money Fabregas gets dominated in midfield far too often.

I don't really see him getting any better than his is now, players rarely do improve that much. I'd only want him if I had a player like a Viera or Keane to play alongside him to stop him getting bullied out the game.

he dominates almost every game he plays, you just don't notice it, he defends, he wins the ball often he turns attack into defence, and he sets up a huge number of our goals or scores them. DO you not remember a Villa game, Fabregas back from injury, didn't start, we sucked, we were truly useless, he came on and scored 2, did he set one up aswell, in about 15 minutes then went off injured maybe, I can't remember, he was outstanding, he came on and utterly utterly dominated and impressive Villa defence, one of the best in the league and ripped them to utter shreds, there are maybe 4-5 players in the league that can turn a game like that around.

What about against Barca won a penalty, broke his leg, scored a penalty, played for 10-15 minutes with a broken leg in a crucial game where he was great with some truly awful players playing like poo around him, against one of the best sides in the world, again, very few players could be so imposing in that kind of a game.

Not sure why Tummy has said Xavi is a younger version of Fabregas(I assume he meant the other way around or is very mistaken).

Likewise barcelona IS built around Xavi and has been for much longer than Arsenal have been built around Fabregas.

Iniesta had one great season, he's a decent enough player but NO WHERE NEAR what people think he is. He's miles from the best at Barca and no where near in Fabregas's league.

Xavi's best year had 36 assists, which is phenomenal, though to be fair, he played 72+ games that year, so not quite as good as it seems, 19 assists in 42 games isn't that far off to be honest. But the 16 goals in 72+ games isn't as good, in a "normal" season that would be under 10 goals. But the thing is that is Xavi's best ever season by a massive margin.

EDIT:- it was 77 games, 73 starts, truly phenomenal amount of games, but thats because of going all the way in the Euro's, spain qualifiers and went miles into the champs league, astonishing amount of games to be honest, its no less good getting 36 assists in a year, just not quite as outstanding as it appears.


The one stat I wish I had, was goals scored with Fabregas on the pitch and without in the Euro's. I would guess at 3/4 or so of the goals being scored with Fabregas on the pitch, which was only around half the time. he also started the last and least important group game while they rested Xavi, which changes the picture again in terms of minutes played in tough games.

Fabregas IS better than both players, he's quite a margin ahead of Iniesta, only marginally better than Xavi but seeing as he's one of the best in the world he's not ever going to be miles ahead of him, you could quite easily play those two in midfield with a decent defensive midfielder.

THe way Barca setup, with Keita, Busquests, Pedro/Iniesta, honestly its easy to slot Fabregas in, Keita's not particularly fantastic, Iniesta is happy to play out wide left, Pedro is a tap in artist, Busquets is simply not good at all.
 
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He has a better goal/game ratio but when you break it down Rooney is superior in every way.

Crouch:


21 goals | 2 assists | 39 appearances
(1 goal every 1.85 games)

11 in friendlies (52%)
5 in Euro qualifers (24%)
4 in World Cup qualifiers (19%)
1 World Cup goal (5%)

17 home goals (81%)
4 away goals (19%)


Rooney:

25 goals | 6 assists | 61 appearances
(1 goal every 2.44 games)

9 in World Cup qualifiers (36%)
8 in friendlies (32%)
4 in Euro qualifiers (16%)
4 in European Championship (16%)

13 home goals (52%)
12 away goals (48%)

This wasn't aimed at you Shamikebab, but everyone who would have Crouch ahead of Rooney in the England team.

Yet those stats to ME say, Crouch can pretty much only score at home, in unimportant friendlies and while not from the stats, we also know most in qualifiers were against awful teams, and again at home and he can't score on big occasions.

Rooney's stats say he doesn't score hattricks against Jamaica, but he's scored half his away from home infront of hostile crowds and more in actual Cups against better teams.

THe problem is, those stats, read correctly read as Rooney being the better player.

A guy that puts in 15 goals at home to Jamaica in a friendly doesn't impress me in even the slightest way, someone away from home against a team thats beaten teams FAR better than Jamaica just to qualify and scoring several goals, screams out as FAR more important goals.
 
Yet those stats to ME say, Crouch can pretty much only score at home, in unimportant friendlies and while not from the stats, we also know most in qualifiers were against awful teams, and again at home and he can't score on big occasions..

You need to look against the teams rooney has scored against, the list of teams is hardly better than Crouch's with rooneys best coming in friendlies.




 
You need to look against the teams rooney has scored against, the list of teams is hardly better than Crouch's with rooneys best coming in friendlies.

Last time Rooney scored was 9th Sept 2009? :eek:

And we are relying on his scoring?

Dont worry England fans, at least we have our 2nd starting striker...

...Heskey :rolleyes:

And we wonder why the only goal comes from midfield :D

At least the French make us look like a team full of team spirit :p
 
Last time Rooney scored was 9th Sept 2009? :eek:

And we are relying on his scoring?

Dont worry England fans, at least we have our 2nd starting striker...

...Heskey :rolleyes:

And we wonder why the only goal comes from midfield :D

At least the French make us look like a team full of team spirit :p

Well to be fair :Luis Fabiano of Brazil scored 2 goals and he hadnt scored since Sept either...ok well one goal was a handball but still you just never know that Rooney might get a hattrick on Wed...well better hope he does:p
 
Last time Rooney scored was 9th Sept 2009? :eek:

And we are relying on his scoring?

Dont worry England fans, at least we have our 2nd starting striker...

...Heskey :rolleyes:

And we wonder why the only goal comes from midfield :D

At least the French make us look like a team full of team spirit :p

Yeah his last goal was in September, the following game against Ukraine didn't Rob Green get sent off quite early in the game and England played with 10 men for nearly 80 minutes? Then against Brazil in the following game he had probably the weakest England team I can think of behind him, Foster, Brown, Upson, Lescott, Bridge, Wright-Phillips, Barry, Jenas, Milner, Bent.

Then two international friendlies that he shouldn't have been near at Wembley where despite playing injured he came close to scoring twice in both games providing chances as well. The same with the Japan game. Too much is being made of him not scoring since September when there's only been 5-6 games since them, and more than half of them he played injured. The sooner he wises up and thinks to himself, maybe I shouldn't play this game with my ankle the way it is, or this groin injury, etc, the better.
 
Not a bad signing for Wolves that, he was decent last season.

I thought it was the African fella from Hull that Wolves were going for?
 
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