Oh God, bad news :(

sedm1000 · 22 Mar 2003 at 12:04

Originally posted by silverpaw
Are you blind to the outside world? seriously, do you have a source of news, of what's actually happening in Iraq?

You obviously do. (though that said, there seem to be enough reporters in there to give us a fair idea).

Originally posted by Over Clocker
Right, this is a thread for people here to express their sorrow for those killed. How dare any of your say we are wrong to do so. If you do not wish to express your sorrow, then dont. But dont tell us not to.

They are only fighting for free speech in Iraq then?

L Plate · 22 Mar 2003 at 12:05

There has been enough tub-thumping patriotism here as it is

and there we have it, exactly the sort of reason why this country is no longer the nation it used to be :mad:

there isnt enough patriotism in this country m8 and its people like you who let it all slip away :mad:

regardless of your views about the servicemen that are dying in this conflict, by accident or by enemy fire they are still dying and if by showing some respect to them and their families is too much patriotism then you might want to pack your bags and sod off to a 3rd world oppressed country and live there, because to be perfectly honest m8 you are everything that makes this country crap with an attitude like that

in fact i dont know why i even bother to lower myself to comment to the likes of you, this is the United kingdom if you cant be patriotic then do one!

Over Clocker · 22 Mar 2003 at 12:10

Originally posted by sedm1000
You obviously do. (though that said, there seem to be enough reporters in there to give us a fair idea).

They are only fighting for free speech in Iraq then?

Say it all you want mate, but not in a thread dedicated to people wanting to pay respect to them. Its like cussing someone you dont like at their funeral. Do it elsewhere if you must.

Some of you guys have really hit peoples nerves in this thread, can't you see why?

sedm1000 · 22 Mar 2003 at 12:16

Originally posted by L Plate
and there we have it, exactly the sort of reason why this country is no longer the nation it used to be

there isnt enough patriotism in this country m8 and its people like you who let it all slip away

Problem is, patriotism and nationalism are too easily confused.

As I`ve said above, it is possible to be patriotic and want the best for our troops without supporting this war, and without glorifying their deaths.

I was hoping to attract you in here, just to get an "official" opinion on the military industry. Given the billions of pounds spent on equipment, shouldn`t the army be above such calamity as we have seen in the past two days? If the failure rate on helicopters missions is, say for example, 1% - what is it for bombs ("throw-away" and so mybe less need for reliability)? If we drop 1000 bombs on a civilian city, and say 5% fail to function properly, is that 50 bombs capable of hitting innocent civilians?

I am not strictly having a dig at the army, as I recognise conflict is not simple. My objection is to the government line of "precision warfare" and claims of "zero civilian casualties". These abstractions from the tru reality only serve to sanitise war in a way that "real" soldiers should find unacceptable.

silverpaw · 22 Mar 2003 at 12:22

^^^ Changes subject :rolleyes:

Nobody is glorifying their deaths, however to say "they were only doing their jobs" is a joke. They're dead! it's not the same as getting dirty in a coal mine, or wet as a swimmer. I suppose you think policemen and nurses who're attacked at work, deserve deserve it, as they're just doing their jobs. :rolleyes:

Bungee · 22 Mar 2003 at 12:35

Originally posted by Over Clocker
Right, this is a thread for people here to express their sorrow for those killed. How dare any of your say we are wrong to do so. If you do not wish to express your sorrow, then dont. But dont tell us not to.

These brave men are part of a liberating force. Iraqi civilians are greeting them with food packages, tearing down Saddam pictures once an area is fully taken when they feel some safety, and chanting "Saddam your time is up etc"

This thread is to show our respect, as we see fit.

Nicely said

Some of you in this thread make me sick to my stomach :mad:

Over Clocker · 22 Mar 2003 at 12:37

Originally posted by Bungee
Nicely said

Some of you in this thread make me sick to my stomach

Thanks. My feelings exactly.

I would also like to express my deep sorrow at the deaths of the 7 British and 1 American Troops upon the 2 Sea King helicopters that collided.

I would also like to express my deep sorrow at any poor Iraqi civilians that may have been killed so far.

Emzay · 22 Mar 2003 at 13:28

Originally posted by MindYerBeak
Why do you want one thread, so you can print more school threads and recieve more attention, or print meaningless posts? Don't you think that our lads who have lost their lives are worth a few words of solace? Your attitude towards our lads in the Gulf is deplorable. You may be anti war, but the least you can do is give our dead soldiers the respect they deserve. You're the first one to break down and cry when someone shouts at you on the forums. What do you suppose the mothers of those dead soldiers are doing right now? Spare some thought for the survivors of this tragedy. Were it not for soldiers you'd be shouting Seig Heil now and singing the Nazi National Anthem. Thanks to them you enjoy freedom today. Don't knock 'em.

^^^^
I've been there. I've read the headstones. I've touched the names of those not found. I've walked in the trenches they fought in, and walked in the underground tunnels and base's they lived in. I've seen the engravings they've made into the stone walls. I've stood in the middle of a battlefield touching the tree you were lucky to reach alive. I've stood underneath the Menin Gate in silence as the dead are remembered. I've touched the cannons and equipment they used to fight with. I've watched the footage of them fighting, of a blimp burning to the ground and a man stumbling out alive. I've seen the vast amount of pictures of men with no faces, dead men laying down in the rats and disease of the trench, of them impaled on tree branches after being blasted into the air. I've sat in a prisoner of war camp. I've listened to a group of gulf war veterans tell their stories, and been on one the ferries that rescued the men knocked down in the Falklands & read the memorials on it. I have sat and listened to my uncle tell me about how the first time he left home with the army, his first job was sweeping up somebody's brains off the streets in Northern Ireland when he was still a boy. I've visited countless museums and read the tales and facts and seen the evidence about life on the frontline and watched the films to match.

I know full well I havn't experienced anything like what they have or will I don't need you or anybody telling me that. But I've atleast bothered to learn about them, I have been shocked, upset, horrified and I have shed those tears that they deserve & stood in silence every November 11th with my poppy on my sleeve remembering those who fought for my country.

So don't you dare even think that I don't respect any person that is willing to fight for their country. EVER.

I just thought we could have one thread to leave respects for them. Thats all.

sedm1000 · 22 Mar 2003 at 14:28

Originally posted by silverpaw
^^^ Changes subject

Nobody is glorifying their deaths, however to say "they were only doing their jobs" is a joke. They're dead! it's not the same as getting dirty in a coal mine, or wet as a swimmer. I suppose you think policemen and nurses who're attacked at work, deserve deserve it, as they're just doing their jobs.

Is it the same as a coalminer being buried alive down a coal mine, or a swimmer slipping, knocking themselves out and drowning. Accidents etc.

chenko · 22 Mar 2003 at 14:40

Navy helicopters collide in Gulf

Two Royal Navy Sea King search and rescue helicopters have been involved in a mid-air collision in the Gulf.

Christ sake! They aint even in major combat yet, and they've crashed 4 now!

I hope no British troops were hurt

Over Clocker · 22 Mar 2003 at 14:44

Originally posted by chenko
Christ sake! They aint even in major combat yet, and they've crashed 4 now!

I hope no British troops were hurt

Crashed 3, not four.

And what do you mean "They aint even in major combat yet"?? Course we are!

Also, i'm afraid 7 British and 1 US were killed in this crash.

Thoughts go the their families.

NeoNemesis · 22 Mar 2003 at 14:44

Originally posted by Stand_By_Me_Girl

I know full well I havn't experienced anything like what they have or will I don't need you or anybody telling me that. But I've atleast bothered to learn about them, I have been shocked, upset, horrified and I have shed those tears that they deserve & stood in silence every November 11th with my poppy on my sleeve remembering those who fought for my country.

Well said Emma.

silverpaw · 22 Mar 2003 at 14:47

Originally posted by Over Clocker
Crashed 3, not four.

And what do you mean "They aint even in major combat yet"?? Course we are!

Also, i'm afraid 7 British and 1 US were killed in this crash.

Thoughts go the their families.

Was actually 6 brits and 1 american I believe.

Irish_Tom · 22 Mar 2003 at 14:51

my thoughts genuinly go out to the families and friends off all our brave service men who not only have died out there but who are still fighting.

MYB i think that post was totaly unjustified and insenstitive. I dont quite know how u got half of that from what emmy said and also why did u target what she had said when there is so much BS in this thread as it is?

Panzer

chenko · 22 Mar 2003 at 14:52

Originally posted by Over Clocker
Crashed 3, not four.

And what do you mean "They aint even in major combat yet"?? Course we are!

Also, i'm afraid 7 British and 1 US were killed in this crash.

Thoughts go the their families.

3? Appologies, Ive only just heard about this, and when they said 2 collided(sp) I expected that they both would have went down. anyone got more links on this?

When I say major, I mean both sides, not just the bombing, that is not combat as far as I see it. Just my oppionion, just sad that is from mistakes not battle (not that that would make it better)

RIP to our troops

James_N · 22 Mar 2003 at 15:04

well all i have to say is R.I.P all those that die fighting out there, i know i wouldnt like to be in those guys shoes right now

Over Clocker · 22 Mar 2003 at 15:12

Originally posted by chenko
3? Appologies, Ive only just heard about this, and when they said 2 collided(sp) I expected that they both would have went down. anyone got more links on this?

When I say major, I mean both sides, not just the bombing, that is not combat as far as I see it. Just my oppionion, just sad that is from mistakes not battle (not that that would make it better)

RIP to our troops

No probs mate.

One thing, if two helicopters collide with each other, how does that make four?? The 3rd(1st) is the US one which crashed yesterday.

I dont get what you mean by we are not in combat, there are tens of thousands of troops on the ground right now fighting

http://news.bbc.co.uk

Sharknose · 22 Mar 2003 at 15:17

Originally posted by Stand_By_Me_Girl

I recognise that place SBMG.
Hill 66 (or something like that???) Went there on a school trip back in 1990. The musuem with those horrific photos of injured troops certainly does make you think about how lucky we all are.

chenko · 22 Mar 2003 at 15:30

Originally posted by Over Clocker
No probs mate.

One thing, if two helicopters collide with each other, how does that make four?? The 3rd(1st) is the US one which crashed yesterday.

I dont get what you mean by we are not in combat, there are tens of thousands of troops on the ground right now fighting

http://news.bbc.co.uk

I was mistakingly(is that a word? heh) adding the first chopper that went down, not sure about the details of that one, but its the one which everyone was rescued, I guess it make a safe landing then?

There are only small amounts of resistance, which I wouldnt class as major combat (and I never said there wasnt any combat at all).

thanks for the link. Ive already been there and it didnt say much about who was on them.

silverpaw · 22 Mar 2003 at 16:08

There's a piece here on the difficulties of helicopters in wartime: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2875701.stm