Ole's sacked, who next?

[inogen]

I don't think Solskjaer has done that bad over the last couple of seasons. He's not top drawer tactically, but frankly, neither was Ferguson, but they're both good man managers, which at a club that spends like Man Utd and therefore for most games fields better players, is often enough.

What has let him down is the signing of Ronaldo. His workrate was always going to have a negative impact and would require some rethinking and teething especially in big games against fully formed teams like Liverpool. Whoever the manager, they're going to have the same problem.

I've read a lot of fans think that the main problem is the lack of top quality defensive midfield. It isn't. The problem is that the squad, from top to bottom is more suited to playing compact, direct, counter attacking football, but in order to transition into a more complete, versatile and consistent team, they have to be able to play with some proper pressing. That pressing was evident at times last season and Ronaldo completely wrecks that. He was possibly the worst signing imaginable. The main problem is that none of the forwards bar Cavani, whilst all scorers of good goals, are good enough do to it either.

I don't believe that Solskjaer would have actively wanted to sign Ronaldo either. He's been offered the chance and taken it, sure, but he most probably didn't have much say in it.

 

[booyaka]

I don't think Solskjaer has done that bad over the last couple of seasons. He's not top drawer tactically, but frankly, neither was Ferguson, but they're both good man managers, which at a club that spends like Man Utd and therefore for most games fields better players, is often enough.

Sorry what?!?

Exactly what has Ole done in 3 years at United NOT to be classed as a failure.... Won nothing, overall bar some early "stability" after Jose, the team has gone backwards. That's not through a lack of quality players - the squad is full of quality players (except DM) - so the issue has to lie with the coaching / tactics / management of those players.

Ole isn't a man manager, he's barely a manager. He got the job to steady the ship, did that and was expected to move on. Poch was who was supposed to come in after Spurs got rid of him but as soon as the PSG job came up - that was off and Ole was staying. He's cheap (in costs terms for United), but he's been found massively lacking in every other part of management. The "old boys" coaching team is lacking (Carrick, Phelan etc) - Even having Fletcher as Technical Director is ridiculous.

 

[Robbo]

who is out of interest?

To be honest I'm not sure.

I would like a Director of Football brought in, such as Rangnick, and then let him look into the manager situation and devise a path forward. All very unlikely though.

Ten Hag might be good, but are we suddenly going to end up playing an Ajax style? I'm not so sure it would work that easily.

Rodgers is OK but with the Liverpool connection and the fact he's been a bit dodgy of late, not perhaps ideal.

Conte works in a lot of ways, though he's not the most exciting manager, but if we win nobody will care that much. I think he would push back against the board, which is good but also may create issues.

Marco Rose is very good but will he leave Dortmund at the moment, probably not.

Potter has worked wonders on the pitch at Brighton, but in comparison there's virtually zero pressure. Would be an interesting experiment...

Pochettino I always wanted but he'll be at PSG for a while now, perhaps in a few years.

Zidane I would take, caretaker would be perfect to see how it goes. Difficult to define his style, but what he did at Madrid was impressive.

 

[chroniclard]

Gerrard?

 

[booyaka]

To be honest I'm not sure.

I would like a Director of Football brought in, such as Rangnick, and then let him look into the manager situation and devise a path forward. All very unlikely though.

Ten Hag might be good, but are we suddenly going to end up playing an Ajax style? I'm not so sure it would work that easily.

Rodgers is OK but with the Liverpool connection and the fact he's been a bit dodgy of late, not perhaps ideal.

Conte works in a lot of ways, though he's not the most exciting manager, but if we win nobody will care that much. I think he would push back against the board, which is good but also may create issues.

Marco Rose is very good but will he leave Dortmund at the moment, probably not.

Potter has worked wonders on the pitch at Brighton, but in comparison there's virtually zero pressure. Would be an interesting experiment...

Pochettino I always wanted but he'll be at PSG for a while now, perhaps in a few years.

Zidane I would take, caretaker would be perfect to see how it goes. Difficult to define his style, but what he did at Madrid was impressive.

can't argue with anything you've posted above - sums up my thoughts pretty much.

 

[fez]

Same question - who do you want?

Someone like Ten Hag.

I can handle things not working out. I can handle a risky appointment if its high risk high reward. What I can't handle is how we just fall from one mistake into another and persist with each one for far too long. You could tell that Klopp was doing something good at Liverpool almost from the start. You could tell from the start that Ole's only real ability was in morale and recruitment and not in coaching or tactics. He was always building a squad that was far better than he was capable of managing and that would only end one way. We should have been looking for our next long term manager 2.5 years ago and probably gone for Nagelsmann.

This is honestly where I think the board is most negligent. They have no long term plan and have no finger on the pulse of the football side of things. When any other big team is driving at a brick wall at speed they slam the brakes on and change course. We just wait until we hit that wall.

 

[inogen]

Sorry what?!?

Exactly what has Ole done in 3 years at United NOT to be classed as a failure.... Won nothing, overall bar some early "stability" after Jose, the team has gone backwards. That's not through a lack of quality players - the squad is full of quality players (except DM) - so the issue has to lie with the coaching / tactics / management of those players.

Ole isn't a man manager, he's barely a manager. He got the job to steady the ship, did that and was expected to move on. Poch was who was supposed to come in after Spurs got rid of him but as soon as the PSG job came up - that was off and Ole was staying. He's cheap (in costs terms for United), but he's been found massively lacking in every other part of management. The "old boys" coaching team is lacking (Carrick, Phelan etc) - Even having Fletcher as Technical Director is ridiculous.

The issue lies in the conflict between recruitment, style of play and coaching. All three of those have to be sync, at the moment all three point in different directions. That's not a coaching issue and will remain the root of the problem no matter who is hired as manager.

Labelling Solskjaer as a failure, like labelling Mourinho before him as one too misses this point entirely.

 

[adam cool dude]

Ole would have been a great manager if he made the right decision in coaching staff around him and I have always thought this. This is what has inevitably cost him. Fergie was never a super duper tactician say as Pep but then again Pep couldn't manage an entire organisation like Fergie could. Fergie always had top top coaches around him. This is where I personally think Ole has excelled at. He has improved the players a lot. Luke Shaw, Rashford and Greenwood have all come on leaps and bounds because of him. He has also bought well. Even made a profit on Dan James.

I believe there is a place for Ole at the club but he has taken it as far as it could go. I do wish it could have worked out but it is pretty obvious now how this season is panning out even though there was progression in the previous two.

The positive is we have a very strong squad for the next manager to take over. Bar CDM you can pick whatever style of play you want and offload the rest in the summer to Newcastle.

Only way Ole has a realistic chance of keeping his job is to sack off his current coaching staff and get the best from wherever no matter the cost although I don't think he has the mineral's to do that. Unfortunately managing any organisation being pally will never work out. You have to be brutal.

 

[Robbo]

Manchester United are considering sacking Ole Gunnar Solskjaer as manager.

The Manchester Evening News understands the club hierarchy is giving serious consideration to dismissing Solskjaer before United's next game at Tottenham on Saturday. United have failed to respond for comment on the manager's position.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...s/man-utd-news-solskjaer-future-21964290?kop=

Please god let it be true.

Also, Neville is having a Twitter meltdown if anyone wants a laugh.

 

[adam cool dude]

The issue lies in the conflict between recruitment, style of play and coaching. All three of those have to be sync, at the moment all three point in different directions. That's not a coaching issue and will remain the root of the problem no matter who is hired as manager.

Labelling Solskjaer as a failure, like labelling Mourinho before him as one too misses this point entirely.

Recruitment and style of play seemed to be going in the right direction. Cavani signing made total sense in that regard even though I hated it at first. Buying Ronaldo is the anamoly. A lot of us were happy because of his Aura and nostalgia yet it is more than likely the worst signing he has ever made. We essentially have to cater for Ronaldo for another season after this. It has shades of Rooney's last season but for different reasons. It is not that Ronaldo is bad. His quality non goal yesterday showed this but the fact the rest of squad has to change to accommodate him for two years has just ruined the momentum of what was being built.

 

[inogen]

Recruitment and style of play seemed to be going in the right direction. Cavani signing made total sense in that regard even though I hated it at first. Buying Ronaldo is the anamoly. A lot of us were happy because of his Aura and nostalgia yet it is more than likely the worst signing he has ever made. We essentially have to cater for Ronaldo for another season after this. It has shades of Rooney's last season but for different reasons. It is not that Ronaldo is bad. His quality non goal yesterday showed this but the fact the rest of squad has to change to accommodate him for two years has just ruined the momentum of what was being built.

Yeah. Ronaldo signing has totally ruined whatever good was being done and yeah, whoever comes in will have to deal with that. Someone who will say **** that, I'm not gonna play him is the best case scenario, be that whoever it is. That won't go down well with the board or a lot of the fans though.

Ronaldo as, far as I can see means a load of goals scored by Ronaldo, less goals scored by other players and more goals conceded. That makes no sense unless it's about all about Ronaldo.

 

[fez]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...s/man-utd-news-solskjaer-future-21964290?kop=

Please god let it be true.

Also, Neville is having a Twitter meltdown if anyone wants a laugh.

You know that hes safe until the club come out publicly to give him their full support.

 

[adam cool dude]

Yeah. Ronaldo signing has totally ruined whatever good was being done and yeah, whoever comes in will have to deal with that. Someone who will say **** that, I'm not gonna play him is the best case scenario, be that whoever it is. That won't go down well with the board or a lot of the fans though.

Ronaldo as, far as I can see means a load of goals scored by Ronaldo, less goals scored by other players and more goals conceded. That makes no sense unless it's about all about Ronaldo.

You only have to look back at the 19/20 season. Martial/Rashford/Greenwood all basically scored 20 goals each which is plenty plus we gained goals from Bruno. Getting goals was never an issue. Ronaldo scoring goals will still not be an issue but everywhere else is going to suffer including the development of the younger players.

Whatever manager comes in will still need to deal with this problem.

 

[Robbo]

Good managers deal with problems, that's what they are paid for.

 

[inogen]

Good managers deal with problems, that's what they are paid for.

Aye. But sometimes things just don't add up. Ronaldo ain't going anywhere and everyone with half a football brain can see that's a impediment to the team and a constraint. So either the manager doesn't play him or he works with that constraint, most probably to the detriment of their own professional reputation.

Personally, I can't see any of the managers on your wanted list thinking this a wholly attractive job.

 

[inogen]

You only have to look back at the 19/20 season. Martial/Rashford/Greenwood all basically scored 20 goals each which is plenty plus we gained goals from Bruno. Getting goals was never an issue. Ronaldo scoring goals will still not be an issue but everywhere else is going to suffer including the development of the younger players.

Yep, totally agree. That's also before we get to the Ronaldo AND Pogba disjunction.

 

[Robbo]

Aye. But sometimes things just don't add up. Ronaldo ain't going anywhere and everyone with half a football brain can see that's a impediment to the team and a constraint. So either the manager doesn't play him or he works with that constraint, most probably to the detriment of their own professional reputation.

Personally, I can't see any of the managers on your wanted list thinking this a wholly attractive job.

I disagree. People are going way overboard with Ronaldo. Yes he's not a high energy player, but he doesn't have to be if the rest of the team are set up correctly. Ronaldo is not the reason we have the worst defence in the league (almost).

Most of them would want the job.

 

[uber soldat]

Signing Ronaldo, one of the best forwards playing the game today is a problem? Maybe that's enough internet for today.

 

[inogen]

I disagree. People are going way overboard with Ronaldo. Yes he's not a high energy player, but he doesn't have to be if the rest of the team are set up correctly. Ronaldo is not the reason we have the worst defence in the league (almost).

Most of them would want the job.

Yeah, like I said, it's that's a constraint. Not one that any up and coming, progressive manager would want. Someone like Conte who might just have the balls to tell everyone it's his way or no way maybe and that then leaves someone being paid half a million quid a week, who's the face of the club being sold around the world on the bench. That wouldn't last long.

And Ronaldo might not be THE reason the defence is bad, but he's one of them. He's a big reason why the midfield can't press effectively and is being bypassed when it tries.

 

[Robbo]

Yeah, like I said, it's that's a constraint. Not one that any up and coming, progressive manager would want. Someone like Conte who might just have the balls to tell everyone it's his way or no way maybe and that then leaves someone being paid half a million quid a week, who's the face of the club being sold around the world on the bench. That wouldn't last long.

And Ronaldo might not be THE reason the defence is bad, but he's one of them. He's a big reason why the midfield can't press effectively and is being bypassed when it tries.

As I've said, there would be a way around it. You can play successful football without a high pressing forward. Near the end of the Atalanta game, Ronaldo was one of the players still sprinting to close people down, which says a lot too.

That isn't really the issue here anyway, Ole has been consistently poor, save for a few good runs. Ronaldo or no Ronaldo, he's consistently out of his depth.