One for the landlords - mould

platypus said:
There are two sides to being a good landlord, it's not unfair to expect reasonable tenants is it?
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I agree but you haven't actually ruled out a underlying reason and are assuming the problem is of their causation. Could it not be something has changed - it has been very wet and windy since you left etc.

You are suggesting they aren't being reasonable tenants and yet you have no proof of this other than a report of mould which has not been investigated sufficiently by your or anyone else. Are the windows and trickles vents still functional, is the extractor fan sufficient and functional - all it may take it the pipe to move in the cold weather and condensation to pool there and you've got a problem, etc.

All I am saying is that I know from personal experience it is not necessarily the fault of the tenant that mould occurs and I would suggest in such an increasingly damp country it is kind of inevitable and as a landlord should be expected.

You expect tenants to keep a house in good repair but you can never expect for them to care for it as they would their own home because at the end of the day legal protection for renters is that poor in this country you should never assume a rental property is a home or anything more than a temporary residence.

When I am saying it is your problem I am directly referring to as the owner one way or another you have to sort it out - something you have sensibly done.
 
Another back street landlord that has just found out that rent income is not 100% back pocket money. Bet you don't declare your rental earnings either. :)
 
Xordium said:
I agree but you haven't actually ruled out a underlying reason and are assuming the problem is of their causation. Could it not be something has changed - it has been very wet and windy since you left etc.

You are suggesting they aren't being reasonable tenants and yet you have no proof of this other than a report of mould which has not been investigated sufficiently by your or anyone else. Are the windows and trickles vents still functional, is the extractor fan sufficient and functional - all it may take it the pipe to move in the cold weather and condensation to pool there and you've got a problem, etc.
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I'm not suggesting they aren't being reasonable. What I still don't understand is why you seem to think that it's impossible that it is their fault. I would completely understand if it was say a buy to let, or a property we'd lived in before and known about mould issues, but the fact is it isn't. But, we're going round in circles and obviously we're not going to agree. You seem to think I'm lying, but the mould has come since they moved in. It's that simple. You're quite right that its up to us to keep the property in a safe liveable condition and I don't mind that at all. I also know that if it was due to structural problems we'd have to get it sorted, and rightly so.

LeeUK said:
Another back street landlord that has just found out that rent income is not 100% back pocket money. Bet you don't declare your rental earnings either. :)
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A useless, unfounded and insulting post. Unless you've nothing useful to contribute, shut up.
 
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Wish our landlord would come check out our property.

We've reported mould several time to our letting agent, and nothing seems to get done. They pass the details onto the landlord who is really dragging their heals getting someone in.

They did get someone in around a 8 months ago, but they wouldn't do the property as the electrics needed sorting as they weren't safe.
So the electrics were sorted a month or two later, however, we've not had anyone back to work on the damp.

Our bathroom has no extractor fan, and only a small window which I leave open as much as possible, but when you're showering not long before leaving for work, I don't want to leave the window open, so there is quite a bit of mould in the bathroom now.

There also is some damp that is effecting the paintwork on a few of the walls of the house, as I think the bricks need re-pointing, but again, we point this out to the landlord and nothing seems to be getting done. All it's doing is making the property a worse state for when we move out in a few months anyway and they've be left with a greater repair bill.
 
platypus said:
What I still don't understand is why you seem to think that it's impossible that it is their fault.
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I've never said that I have, if you look back, countered the stupid notion (as exemplified by D.P.'s attitude) that is must be their fault and respectfully pointed out a) you can't prove that and b) you need to fix it as it's your property.

I am afraid it's one of those things you have to suck up. Mould in flat will always be a potential problem and in a rented flat more so. You need to account for such things when budgeting the cost involved in my opinion. I place the same keeping things as they stipulations on my apartment in Austria but I also reasonably expect far more damage than would ever occur if I was living there at that time and therefore figure that into my expected costs etc.

It's like with a garden if you rent a house whilst you expect the garden to be kept tidy and in seasonal order if a tree root pushes up the patio then you can't really push that one on the tenants.

If you are asking which I think maybe you are "Are the tenants I have a risk for causing more problems with mould and would I be better off with other tenants" then I expect the answer is "yes and no".
 
Xordium said:
It's like with a garden if you rent a house whilst you expect the garden to be kept tidy and in seasonal order if a tree root pushes up the patio then you can't really push that one on the tenants.
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Agreed. Mold however? In a property thats never experienced mold, with more than adequate ventilation? I'm not convinced the argument that its been a "very wet and windy year" is really much cop either.
 
platypus said:
Agreed. Mold however? In a property thats never experienced mold, with more than adequate ventilation? I'm not convinced the argument that its been a "very wet and windy year" is really much cop either.
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It may not be but as I've pointed out you'll have a devil of a time proving otherwise.

So you need to make the choice and think about this logically. You seem to have decided that it is most likely their fault - I don't think anything will sway you from that thought - and therefore need to make another decision: do I expect all tenants to care for my property as if they were me or is it these particular tenants who are worse than others.

If I may offer again something from my perspective. I personally don't give a stuff about the small amount of mould in our bathroom - if he fixes it I stay here if he doesn't and it was a problem I would move as I am paying an awful lot in rent every month (still cheaper than buying a big house where I live for just another few years though). I really don't care tbh about the house it is not a home to me it's just big enough and in the right location for me. I keep it clean and tidy and report any problems promptly but in no way do I care for this place as much as I would my own. Do I leave that en-suite window full open to alleviate problems when I get up at 6 in the morning - hell no it's cold - the extractor fan is on and the window is open a bit and the house is warm - if it then gets mould that really isn't my problem. If it was my place I'd stick a better extractor in and block off that venting etc. You haven't yet determined that there is no new structural problems or if the extractor fan is sufficient etc.

I guess I am saying even a good tenant like me will only go so far as there is no ownership there and no guaranteed longevity to the agreement. Is it any wonder tenants then don't care for the property as much or treat is as a home they have no right to make such an investment so you won't get the care that you gave it. As a landlord you need to face up to this.
 
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I've had permanent mould problems at all properties I have lived in. It's always caused by human living and in particular drying clothes inside.

Good ventilation in bathrooms and dehumidifier were the ultimate fixes. I now rent my house and provide a dehumidifier and ask the tenant to only dry clothes in the room with that unit in, seems to pretty much sort the problem.
 
Xordium said:
It may not be but as I've pointed out you'll have a devil of a time proving otherwise.

So you need to make the choice and think about this logically. You seem to have decided that it is most likely their fault - I don't think anything will sway you from that thought - and therefore need to make another decision: do I expect all tenants to care for my property as if they were me or is it these particular tenants who are worse than others.

If I may offer again something from my perspective. I personally don't give a stuff about the small amount of mould in our bathroom - if he fixes it I stay here if he doesn't and it was a problem I would move as I am paying an awful lot in rent every month (still cheaper than buying a big house where I live for just another few years though). I really don't care tbh about the house it is not a home to me it's just big enough and in the right location for me. I keep it clean and tidy and report any problems promptly but in no way do I care for this place as much as I would my own. Do I leave that en-suite window full open to alleviate problems when I get up at 6 in the morning - hell no it's cold - the extractor fan is on and the window is open a bit and the house is warm - if it then gets mould that really isn't my problem. If it was my place I'd stick a better extractor in and block off that venting etc. You haven't yet determined that there is no new structural problems or if the extractor fan is sufficient etc.

I guess I am saying even a good tenant like me will only go so far as there is no ownership there and no guaranteed longevity to the agreement. Is it any wonder tenants then don't care for the property as much or treat is as a home they have no right to make such an investment so you won't get the care that you gave it. As a landlord you need to face up to this.
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I'm obviously a little naieve in thinking that someone would treat something as well as I would then, which is a shame. But then given that I've never been a landlord before I don't suppose I'll apologise for it. Having been a tenant for an awful long time though, I don't think it unreasonable though that I'd be expected to air the house a little better, or take what steps I can to prevent mold growing - structural problems aside.

This has gotten a little past the generic question I was originally posing, and you seem to have gotten a little more personal about it (no dramas, I posed the thread) but; I wonder what it would take for you to actually accept that it might be the tenants fault, and I'm not - how was it LeeUK put so obstreperously and rudely - a back street (whatever that means?) landlord?

Under what circumstances would you actually accept that the tenants might reasonably be asked to say meet halfway the costs of cleaning? LeeUKs unpleasantness aside, and whilst he was being facetious about the sentiment of pocket money it really isn't cheap being a landlord (insert the world smallest violin etc - don't get me wrong I realise it's a priviledged position).

@rIcK perhaps a dehumidifier is a good idea.
 
platypus said:
and you seem to have gotten a little more personal about it
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I am merely pointing out yet again that:

You've not had the placed assessed to determine the root cause of the problem
You have no way of proving negligence on their behalf
You have no way of proving there were no prior problems

Now if you were able to reasonably prove all those then you would have a case but as you quite clearly can't then it is a moot point isn't it.

That is not me getting personal about it at all - I merely used a personal example to demonstrate that what D.P. said was blatantly wrong and to state as both someone who rents out and rents that I would expect a landlord to have the burden on this.

It seems to me you've got into something that you've not fully thought through expecting to get a certain amount of money for little risk. And in that you are naive as you freely admit. You can't pin the costs of your naivety onto someone else just chalk it up as a lesson learned and not exactly an expensive one and move on.

If you truly want to return to the UK to a flat in the same condition to which you left it in you should never have rented it out. But you chose to, to obviously make money, and as with any such investment then there will be costs. You have to suck that up and really should have had this thought through and explained better to you by the letting agency you are using.
 
Tell them to turn the heating up.

Mould comes from damp, damp comes from condensation, condensation comes from high humidity.

Humidity varies in relation to temperature. (how much water the air can hold).

It's not enough to open the windows and put a jumper on, you have to keep the house warm as well.
 
Xordium said:
I am merely pointing out yet again that:

You've not had the placed assessed to determine the root cause of the problem
You have no way of proving negligence on their behalf
You have no way of proving there were no prior problems

Now if you were able to reasonably prove all those then you would have a case but as you quite clearly can't then it is a moot point isn't it.

That is not me getting personal about it at all
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You've made it personal, by automatically assuming I'm lying, and I like the notion that I assumed there was no risk. When I mentioned naievity, it was having faith that people would treat something as well as you would, rather than that being a landlord would be a cheap way to make a quick buck. Legally speaking obviously we're on thin ice I do realise that.

You've ignored the generic question I asked, so rather than go back round in circles lets just ask it one final time, and I'll make it even simpler for you. Is it unreasonable for the tenant to contribute to cleaning costs if they are to blame?

Given that there is no evidence that they are to blame quite rightly we have gotten it sorted. As was said several times on the first page, which you seem to have conveniently ignored to try and hammer home your point, we're trying to ascertain what the actual fault is.
 
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To be fair there's starting to become a lot of landlord hate as well :(.

Edit: sorry didnt see that was in response to captain planet :(.
 
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Mynight said:
To be fair there's starting to become a lot of landlord hate as well :(.
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Look at LeeUKs post, and look at Xordiums repeated disbelief that there couldn't possibly have been mold in the house before the tenants moved on? No the landlord must be lying!

We didn't become landlords to make an easy buck off someone elses hard work, we did so to pay the mortgage whilst we're away, and more importantly so we have somewhere to return too in either an emergency or when we do decide to come back. Heaven forbid that we should worry that our investment is being well treated.

Yep there are plenty of horrible landlords. Guess what - there are plenty of horrible tenants.
 
LeeUK comes across as someone you wouldnt want to rent to :D. Xordium has a point it is nigh on impossible to prove its their fault. Personally I would have had it painted with a fungicidal paint where the mold is and seeing as they've had advice on airing it out then there shouldn't be a reappearance. If it does come back in the same place then next stage would be to have the plaster tested to see if it in itself has a problem, if not then its got to be a tennant issue. At that point I would place the charge upon them solely, I'd just take the hit on the first instance.

Property tends to be a solid investment for retirement much moreso than a pension (assuming a constant rent). Personally I dont get the mindset of paying £xxxx a month to run it down, I get its not yours you dont care too much but you're living there surely you want it to be nice.

If you were a 'backstreet landlord' would you even bother to get it fixed?
 
We've had patches of mould in the house we're renting this year, but we (read: I, because my housemates are typically moronic students unable to care for themselves, let alone other people's property) take all the necassary precautions. Opening the window after showering, when cooking, etc. Luckily the landlord was wise enough to fit an extractor fan in the bathroom, vents in all the rooms, double glazing with trickle vents, etc.

A few months ago he popped round with a HG mould spray to use should we need to and it's been great. Spray it, leave it on for 20 mins or so, rinse and rub off. Only used it in the bathroom so far. That said, he didn't have to.

It's both parties responsibility really. The landlords for any structurally related mould or damp, the tenants for any behavioural causes (especially if it's in the contract).
 
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