Poll: Oppression Via circumcision

[Angleboy]

Oh please get out will you lol...first of all one practise is illegal and banned ie kiddie fiddling and the other circumcision isnt

Like you said im entitled to my religion and its views so if thats the case then i will do what my religion says because as you just pointed out i have every right to my religion and because of that the foreskin of my boy will be cut off within a few days of his birth so he doesnt feel much pain...

I dont understand why you lot are so up in arms about the whole thing...its not an uncommon practise and neither is it only restricted to religionswhen plenty of people are getting it done whether its through medical purposes or not.

YOUR RELIGION.

NOT

YOUR BOYS RELIGION.

There is a VERY big difference.

Also: In before but i will raise him to be retarded.. sorry muslim (but if he defies me and we happen to be on holiday out of the civilised world i'll stone him to death for it)

 

[Pug]

Read the reference I posted.

Nothing wrong with the reference just your anatomy. foreskin |= Glans

 

[Syph]

The good old "Two Wrongs Make a Right" fallacy.

Not particularly, no. Parents make decisions on behalf of their children right throughout their lives, which the child(ren) have no choice in. I would simply argue that circumcision perhaps ranks quite lowly on the scale of 'bad things my parents did to me'.

Sorry for being anecodotal here, but I certainly don't believe my circumcision has made such a huge impact on my life as would my parents keeping me at a poor secondary school. I've already posted my feelings on the op further back in the thread.

Again, in the interests of a debate, I'm putting the idea out there that a circumcision is perhaps not the life-changing op so many think.

Maybe my own lack of foreskin masks my ability to understand?

Look at the definition of mutilate,

"Disfigurement or injury by removal or destruction of a conspicuous or essential part of the body."

"To disfigure by damaging irreparably."

"To make imperfect by excising or altering parts."

And the definition of child abuse by the WHO,

"Physical abuse
Physical abuse of a child is that which results in actual or potential physical harm from an interaction or lack of an interaction, which is reasonably within the control of a parent or person in a position of responsibility, power or trust. There may be a single or repeated incidents. "

Circumcision easily meets those criteria. As well as being a violation of human rights.

Wow, thanks for that. I now know I'm disfigured, injured, damaged and imperfect.

Or maybe I just don't have a foreskin. Not that it has affected the use of my penis in anyway.

I agree, if there isn't a medical necessity to remove the foreskin it probably should be left as-is. But then I'm not about to call people who do it for religious reasons child abusers or mutilators. It's a world away from FGM to me at least.

 

[ChrisJSY]

Had it done about 6 months ago , I am 25.
I needed it done because put simply, it was painful before and I couldn't take it any longer.
I'm glad I had it done, even if they messed up closing some blood vessels and had to have myself cautorized with no anaesthetic, on my penis, argh.
All is fine now.

I still maintain this should not be done to people without their concent, or choice, therfor children should not have it done, I'm glad I was given the choice but in the end it wouldn't have mattered, I needed it done.
I'm not sure what to pick, I'm for it because people like me NEED it done. Pancake.

All the people that cannot understand why, I simply have no other words except you're stupid for not having the ability to think of a reason why and getting all righteous.
Edit: Oh and if you can't keep your penis clean I'd be worried about your overall hygiene and cleanliness.

 

[Yas786]

Well as a health care professional in an speciality that has a lot of input from urology (in fact I was in that speciality for quite a few years) I can say quite confidently you are talking out of your ***. If you look at the FLACC pain scores they are very often in the 3rd (the highest) threshold of the WHO analgesic ladder. So maybe before accusing others of spouting off nonsense you should get your facts correct, eh?

Wind your neck in...im only going by what my sis in law and my mother have told me thats all...i dont work in the medical profession so i wouldnt know.

But saying that after reading your post i did have a look at the link between the FLACC and circumcision and it varies from child to child ie some have an analgesia applied along with sucrose or something like that...im pretty sure my sis in law said they did rub something onto my nephews willy so maybe thats why he didnt scream in pain etc...it was done 7 yrs ago so dont remember much other than her changing his nappie and seeing the bandage wrapped around his little willy.

Im just going to go round and cut spawns little toes off.

Cos its my religion to do so.. and he'll be fine without them anyways!

Right spawn?

you would have a hell of a time catching me though..

YOUR RELIGION.

NOT

YOUR BOYS RELIGION.

There is a VERY big difference.

Also: In before but i will raise him to be retarded.. sorry muslim (but if he defies me and we happen to be on holiday out of the civilised world i'll stone him to death for it)

Please tell me you really arent that clueless?? lol...his religion will be the same as mine whether he practises or not but he WILL be raised as a muslim and because of that his foreskin will be cut off...i know that irks you...just makes me laugh at you because it bothers you so much

LOL stone him to death because he might defy me??...what drugs you on son??...been at the glue have we??

Honestly the self righteous brigade in here are hilarious lol...

 

[Xordium]

Wind your neck in...im only going by what my sis in law and my mother have told me thats all...i dont work in the medical profession so i wouldnt know. ...

No need to wind my neck - I just merely stated you was talking out your *** which you now appear to agree with as you are one minute posting that kids under 7 days do not feel much pain and then the next stating that you don't know and that you only have second hand knowledge of two cases of which one that it appears had been given analgesia. To save you looking any more neonates feel pain to the same extent as adults and as most adults here who have had the procedure say it hurts like hell then I guess it does for the little chaps to. What they do not have is the ability to vocalise that pain or advocate for their own desires instead in the absence of adequate pain control they do such pleasant things as breath-hold and go blue from lack of oxygen + vomit + stop breathing etc. So argue all you want for your religious rights but do not state this is a pain free or relatively insignificant procedure as the physiological response of the neonates it is performed upon indicates that it is not. The balancing act is will not having the procedure performed cause more problems from a social aspect but that is not the slant you are coming from is it?

 

[Energize]

Nothing wrong with the reference just your anatomy. foreskin |= Glans

What are you talking about? The graph in the study shows that the foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis. You haven't just read the abstract have you?

Not particularly, no. Parents make decisions on behalf of their children right throughout their lives, which the child(ren) have no choice in. I would simply argue that circumcision perhaps ranks quite lowly on the scale of 'bad things my parents did to me'.

That is the two wrongs make a right fallacy, a form of ignoratio elenchi. When someone tries to justify or minimize one thing by stating worse things are done. It's an irrelevance fallacy because whether worse things are done or not is irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[starfighter]

My father abused me so I am going to abuse my children.

 

[starfighter]

ooops double post.

It isn't the biggest problem in the world obviously but that doesn't mean it is acceptable. Sure there are much more worrying things that parents can do to their kids that are legal. I would rather be circumsized and have loving parents than not and have some idiots that didn't and were crap parents.

But that still doesn't mean it is ideal. I am surprised no one has sued their parents yet.

I would be rather angry if they mutated my genitals and would seek revenge.


hope your kids rise up and kills you all!!!!! You deserve it you sickos.

 

[Angilion]

[..]
I agree, if there isn't a medical necessity to remove the foreskin it probably should be left as-is. But then I'm not about to call people who do it for religious reasons child abusers or mutilators. It's a world away from FGM to me at least.

FGM covers a huge range of mutilation, not just the extreme examples that campaigners mention. The least mutilating end is comparable with the usual MGM. It's treated very differently for political reasons.

 

[snowdog]

I wouldn't do it, why, it makes your dingdong less sensitive and you feel 6 weeks of pain after doing it. Only if something is wrong, my mate had to as something was wrong with it ( and it hurt that bad that he had to get a shot of morphine at the hospital the next day) but if it's working fine then why on earth would you want it circumcised ?

 

[Angilion]

Hopefully that wil never happen as it will give into individuals such as yourself who feel the need to dictate what people can or cant do, whether it be religious or non religious reasons.

The day that happens will be the day democracy suffers.

If you believe that, then you must believe that democracy has suffered since before democracy existed, as there have been laws to protect children throughout recorded history, as well as other laws dictating what people can or can't do.

You appear to be mistaking democracy for absolute anarchy, because all laws dictate what people can or can't do.

Or you're just talking rubbish to try to make out that you have the moral high ground.

You can dress it up how you like, but the fact of the matter is that you advocate cutting parts of children's genitals off because you want to. That's not democracy.

 

[Energize]

FGM covers a huge range of mutilation, not just the extreme examples that campaigners mention. The least mutilating end is comparable with the usual MGM. It's treated very differently for political reasons.

I'm glad someone cleared this up as I was going to post this, there is this misconception that FGM is always worse than MGM which is used to justify the sexism of the legislation, when in most cases it is comparable.

 

[Angilion]

A religious aside...

Is it Judaism, Islam or both that explicitly forbids alteration of any kind on the basis that it's contrary to what their god intended? I recall the example given of what was forbidden was marking a cow's ear to denote which farmer owns it, so it's clearly not messing about when it states that any alteration is forbidden.

Given that, how can cutting parts of a person's genitals off be allowed within the religiion, let alone required?

I don't regard religion as an acceptable excuse for anything anyway, but I am interested in how a theist of the relevant religions tries to explain the lack of internal consistency (if they care - internal consistency is not required in a religion).

 

[doiks14]

Moar Pancake !!!

 

[meghatronic]

always slightly worried i had done something to it during sex or MMA or something.

You're doing it wrong!

(I roll it back some of the time)

 

[Angleboy]

Wind your neck in...im only going by what my sis in law and my mother have told me thats all...i dont work in the medical profession so i wouldnt know.

But saying that after reading your post i did have a look at the link between the FLACC and circumcision and it varies from child to child ie some have an analgesia applied along with sucrose or something like that...im pretty sure my sis in law said they did rub something onto my nephews willy so maybe thats why he didnt scream in pain etc...it was done 7 yrs ago so dont remember much other than her changing his nappie and seeing the bandage wrapped around his little willy.



you would have a hell of a time catching me though..



Please tell me you really arent that clueless?? lol...his religion will be the same as mine whether he practises or not but he WILL be raised as a muslim and because of that his foreskin will be cut off...i know that irks you...just makes me laugh at you because it bothers you so much

LOL stone him to death because he might defy me??...what drugs you on son??...been at the glue have we??

Honestly the self righteous brigade in here are hilarious lol...

You obviously know very little about your own religion.

You also obviously do not excercise the ability to think for yourself

You do not OWN your son(s) They are NOT your property. You would'nt cut off their arms, or gouge out their eyes, or remove fingers, or scalp them, so why are you removing their foreskin?

Becasue someone told me to. Because its my religion. Because its tradition.

WHY did someone tell you to? Why does your religion want you to? Why is it tradition?

Because some other human who no longer exists said so?

and why did he say so?

Becasue someone who doesnt exist, that he invented, said so?

Why would their invention say so?

Why put it there in the first place?

Why are you doing something that has ZERO basis in anything logical.
Why are you doing something that has ZERO benefit to you, your child or society?

Take the time to analyse, think with your own mind and try and form a non-biased conclusion from a neutral perspective.

There is only 1 outcome.

Circumcision (or any multilation) of a child is wrong unless for explicit medical reasons. Anything else is Child Abuse. You should be locked up, and your children removed if you attack them in such a fasion.

 

[Naffa]

Please tell me you really arent that clueless?? lol...his religion will be the same as mine whether he practises or not but he WILL be raised as a muslim and because of that his foreskin will be cut off...i know that irks you...just makes me laugh at you because it bothers you so much

LOL stone him to death because he might defy me??...what drugs you on son??...been at the glue have we??

Honestly the self righteous brigade in here are hilarious lol...

I don't think I've seen such a horrifically facetious comment in my whole time on these forums. And how on Earth you can treat an issue like this as the subject of humour, really is beyond the pale, and beyond me. Disgusting.

Well, I'm extremely proud to be able to say that such practice bothers me as yes, Angleboy quite correctly says, you're a Muslim, your son is not. If you do choose to get your son circumcised, raised in the same religion as yourself, then not only have you behaved with flippancy befitting only somebody of religious affiliation, you've crystallised a perfect example of a word known as; "indoctrination". None of these are good things, by the way.

 

[Energize]

And how on Earth you can treat an issue like this as the subject of humour, really is beyond the pale, and beyond me.

It's a classic form of denial I'm afraid.

 

[Sin_Chase]

It's mutilation outside of a GENUINE medical reason and should be a choice the person makes then able.