Ordered a viper green scirocco!

[Irish_Tom]

Just re-read the thread from where I started posting sensibly and I think there's been some crossed wires. Either way, my initial point was that yes, he wasn't aware of what PCP was.

On your second point, I do understand PCP, I was making a hyperbolic sweeping generalisation. I don't think it's pedantic unless he actually complete the final balloon payment.

I know the evils of PCP had been explained by the time I started posting, the reason I said what I did was because you started lambasting people for 'ramming their ideals down his throat' and suggesting we should praise people like him for paying for the depreciation on cars so that we could pick them up in a few years time on the cheap. You said If he was happy then you had no issue with it.

My point was, he couldn't be happy with it because he had no comprehension of it. In this instance it was a case of 'ignorance is bliss'. If he had been well informed and made the same choice then I'd agree with you and I'd be happy for him too. However, from his responses before my comment, it seemed to me that he was having second thoughts.

 

[BigT]

Clarification: I have no issue with people financing cars. I just hate to see people ripping themselves off and other people going 'yea yea so what he can afford it' as justification. I could afford to go and spend £10 on a packet of crisps right now with the justification that I simply couldnt be bothered to walk a further 300 yards to a cheaper shop, or that I only had 10p and they'd finance me the crisps for 10p a week for 2 years, but that doesnt suddenly make it a good idea.

I'm not sure part of that analogy works though. The first part is valid if you can tell the OP how to obtain a brand new green Scirocco on massive wheels for less than £275/month or whatever it is.

The second part, well if you really, really wanted a packet of crisps, and the crisps were only available for £10, which you didn't have, and they offered you it for 10p a week, which you could afford, then you might take it.

You, or I, or most of the entuisiasts on this forum don't care for a new car. We know you can get a much better deal and a better car by letting someone else take the depreciation hit. But if your main requirement was a brand spanking new car, to the detriment of everything else, and the only way you could afford it was like this, then you'd do it just like the OP and hundreds of thousands of others in this country. You simply see no benefit to it being new to justify the huge difference in total cost of ownership (nor do I BTW). But some people, presumably including the OP, do feel it is worth it. By the same rationale I could be accused of wasting a vast amount of money because my car hits 0-60 in two seconds less than the next model down, which could have been had for two thirds the cost. But to me the premium is worth it. Well not just the 0-60 times, but hopefully I've explained the point.

In summary I don't think he is ripping himself off if this is what he wants. There is no other way he can own his shiny new VW right now on a better deal is there? (Assuming he does not have the cash to purchase outright and the bank won't lend him £23K)

A more pertinent question I feel is the one of, "If you went in looking for a second hand Golf, is a brand new Scirocco what you really wanted?". If the answer is no then ignore everything I've written above, because it is based on the premis that the OP wants a new bottom of the range green VW hatch with big wheels and nothing else will do.

 

[Irish_Tom]

A more pertinent question I feel is the one of, "If you went in looking for a second hand Golf, is a brand new Scirocco what you really wanted?". If the answer is no then ignore everything I've written above, because it is based on the premis that the OP wants a new bottom of the range green VW hatch with big wheels and nothing else will do.

It's funny because that's exactly what I was thinking all the way through your post. Then you said it for me!

 

[Biohazard]

A lease is a long term hire car - this will never be your car because it belongs to Volkswagen Financial Services. It is no more your new car than the Ford Mustang I've booked from Hertz for 2 weeks is my new car. Your hire is just longer than mine.

Poor analogy imo.

 

[GravyMonster]

Why?

Seems bang on to me.

 

[matt_fsr]

Why?

Seems bang on to me.

The only difference is at the end of 2 weeks Fox cant offer Hertz a lump sum to buy the Mustang. This may be what the OP intends to do, depends if he still likes the car 3 years on.

Personally, I love the new shape Scirocco, yes its a tad wide looking but I do like it very much. Colour is pretty good too, I think its vibrant and stands out without being ridiculously garish. And its not silver

But I just wince tremendously at those monthly payments 2 of them wouldnt quite have bought my car, 3 would, with change to pass the MOT. A 4th payment would clear my tax for a year and all 1st year repair bills. (i.e. none)

Bangernomics!

 

[Housey]

Buying a new car is an extravagance, it is not a sensible way to spend your money but the same is true of the £5k of tat many on this site will add to their shed to 'make it betta' when in reality it's money spunked up the wall that will probably never be seen again......like the draw full of super powerful graphics cards I have that won't play Chuckie Egg these days or the boxes full of PC bits that cost and arm and a leg and are now worthless! To keep bringing up the fact that a new car is wasted money is missing the fact that not every decision in life, not least where a luxury is concerned, is made with a spreadsheet. I think we can all agree that there is NO financial justification for a new car, lets park that.

Now, funding. The vast majority of people who finance cars take a bath, they have happy ears on because they are about to get a new car and the salesman sniffs that and sells them up....in their mind. You'll notice how many financial guys in dealers have pictures of smashed up cars around them........"this is what happens when you don't have GAP" is the line they take and people suck it up. Having said this, how many people other than Foxy keep a car longer than say 2-3 years? If you don't then WHY THE HELL are you bothered if it's your car or not. This has zero effect on it's value and if funded efficiently and you want to use it as a car what does it matter if the car is yours or Mr Banks, not least if you fund it in such a way that you are not exposed should you need to get out quickly.......which is you have £20K in the bank in cash you are less likely to need to of course........well unless that £20K is spunked into a car.

It's not black and white......life isn't black and white. If your primary focus is money then why new and why finance. If your primary focus is a new car then money is not an issue to you and buy something you can afford to fund and, more importantly, doesn't leave you in a bad situation if you MUST get out of it.......which is where many go wrong.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Secondly, where have I remotely even every said anything that remotely can be construed as your false accusation?

Right here:

But they will be two different cars, one will be shiny and new and only owned by the OP, the other will be much older and had previous owners..

The other will only be 'much older' if a 'much older' car is purchased in the first place. If you buy a 6-12 month old car it will be 3.5-4 years old at the 3 year mark. This is not 'much older' than a 3 year old car. Whether it was the point you intended to make or not it seemed to me you beleived a used car to be an old car and a new car to be, well, a new car.

Just because you can't make sense of diesel cabrio's/new cars and the like, just means you lack the comprehension to understand other people, and your default stance is to brand them idiots..

You flat out refuse to accept that anything about a new car can possibly be enticing/rewarding for a person, which leads you to your default stance on everything you can't understand, they must be idiots..

Whoa whoa whoa there. Stop a moment. Let me explain something.

If you sit down, think carefully about what you are doing, look at the figures involved, ensure you are educated as to exactly how each deal works and then you decide that even after this you wish to purchase a new car then do it - obviously the value you place on the car being new is high enough to justify the expense to you. I won't agree with your choice but I won't exactly be branding you an idiot either.

This is absolutely NOT what has happened with the OP.

He walked into a showroom to purchase a used Golf and managed to walk out of the showroom having ordered a new Scirocco base model on a lease with dealer provided GAP. IE, he impulse bought the deal based on the salesmans speak. This is entirely obvious by the fact the dealer managed to him to buy GAP at dealer rates!

THIS is the sort of thing I simply cannot abide. It is reckless, foolish and downright silly unless you are completely minted and if you were completely minted you wouldnt be posting about how you couldnt afford the 160 variant and had to instead settle for the 122.

There are two arguments going on in this thread it seems. New versus Used, which has merits in both camps and will go on for ever, and 'The OP made a bad decision' v 'The OP made the right decision'.

Surely you can see that?

My bottom line:

I dislike uninformed purchasing decisions. I like informed purchasing decisions. There is a time and place in this world for impulse - infact we'd be boring people without it but the purchase of £23,000 assets when you probably dont even earn that in a year (Please dont read too much into that, I'm just making a point, change the number if you want) is not the right time to be impulsive.

Sadly this is completely true.

Fox if your reading this, you really could do with just accepting people have different viewpoints to you instead of labelling anybody that has a viewpoint you cant understand an idiot.

Sadly this is completely false but then I'm hardly suprised it's you who posted it.

I am probably more able than most to seperate my own personal taste from questions asked in this forum. Thats why I'm usually the one arguing against the people who seem to think a 200bhp car is the answer to everyones question.

If it was simply a case that I could not accept other peoples viewpoints then my stance in every thread would be that any deal which isn't a sub 5 year old BMW is the wrong one, because for me personally, that is my stance and that is the way I personally approach purchasing decisions.

In reality you almost never see that post from me, I am never recommending people chose a used BMW over pretty much anything as I completely appreciate such a decision suits very few people and is personal to myself.

Its like your MPV hatred, just because you don't want the extra convenience they afford, doesnt mean others cant want it either.

I don't have MPV hatred and have in the past been known to recommend cars like the Ford S-Max.

But keep posting made up bilge about what you think I think

 

[Demon]

Why do the new car lovers always pretend the used alternative is some sort of tatTy old wreck? Demon is worst for this

Secondly, where have I remotely even every said anything that remotely can be construed as your false accusation?

Right here:

But they will be two different cars, one will be shiny and new and only owned by the OP, the other will be much older and had previous owners..

You've lost the plot totally.. Where does it say 'tatty', or somehow 'knackered' or whatever? that's what you accused me of..

You seem to be in a little world of your own on this one..

The rest is just nonsense, totally misunderstanding what is actually been said, that's quite impressive in itself, one day you'll be that bit wiser and realise, until then, there isn't a lot to say, you seem to think the rest of the world is mad, and you are the only sane person.. classic..

 

[[TW]Fox]

You've lost the plot totally..

Where does it say 'tatty', or somehow 'knackered' or whatever? that's what you accused me of..

You seem to be in a little world of your own on this one..

I did not directly quote you saying that, I merely said you were one of the worst at conveying the opinion of how unsightly used cars seem to be. There are more people than you who appear to come across in the way I mentioned. You just seem the most vocal. It was the way you criticised the used alternative in your post by saying

the other will be much older

Which of course it wont. Most new car buyers (You may or may not be one of them but the point remains) seem to be under the impression that buying new is best because second hand cars are wrecks which break. You even went into the warranty thing even though the difference in warranty between a new and a 6 month old car is very slight!

Still, at least you managed to focus on that one part of my post and ignore the other pretty sensible stuff I'd typed out. Why did you ignore my pretty comprehensive explanation of exactly where I am coming from in this thread and why I have that stance?

 

[Demon]

I did not directly quote you saying that, I merely said you were one of the worst at conveying the opinion of how unsightly used cars seem to be. There are more people than you who appear to come across in the way I mentioned. You just seem the most vocal. It was the way you criticised the used alternative in your post by saying



Which of course it wont. Most new car buyers (You may or may not be one of them but the point remains) seem to be under the impression that buying new is best because second hand cars are wrecks which break. You even went into the warranty thing even though the difference in warranty between a new and a 6 month old car is very slight!

Still, at least you managed to focus on that one part of my post and ignore the other pretty sensible stuff I'd typed out. Why did you ignore my pretty comprehensive explanation of exactly where I am coming from in this thread and why I have that stance?

You accused me of something that is totally false, backed up by black and white proof, I even then give you my very clear stance on used cars, and still you seem to just hear what you want to hear..

Your other 'sensible' stuff is either just your opinion, or stating the obvious about everything, which no one is disagreeing with, well of course I would disagree heavily with the harsh manner in which you offer advice in these situations, but what's to comment on?

Bottom line is, I am assuming looking at a TSi (which he compared a golf to a scirrocco) which are £18K+ new, won't be £12K in 6 months at a main dealer, I'm assuming 2 years old gets you an equivalent car for £12K, you are assuming he'll go for a 6 month old car, I'm not attacking you for your assumption, but you are really laying it on thick about mine, for some stupid reason..

 

[[TW]Fox]

You accused me of something that is totally false,

Get a grip I equated 'much older' with 'tatty' I didnt accuse you of murder.

Your other 'sensible' stuff is either just your opinion, or stating the obvious about everything, which no one is disagreeing with,

No one is disagreeing with? Thread seems pretty full of disagreement to me!

well of course I would disagree heavily with the harsh manner in which you offer advice in these situations, but what's to comment on?

Come off it, I've not even posted as much in this thread as I usually do in threads like this. It was 10 posts long when I posted and I came back to find 3 pages... yet obviously I'm still the only bad guy right? Thats how it works yes?

Bottom line is, I am assuming looking at a TSi (which he compared a golf to a scirrocco) which are £18K+ new, won't be £12K in 6 months at a main dealer, I'm assuming 2 years old gets you an equivalent car for £12K, you are assuming he'll go for a 6 month old car, I'm not attacking you for your assumption, but you are really laying it on thick about mine, for some stupid reason..

Where have I at any point suggested spending £12k on a used Scirocco was the better deal for him? I don't even think you can get a Scirocco for £12k. I think most peoples £12k comaprisons are based on how much he expected to spend on a used Golf until he fell for the salesman.

I've not actually bothered to table a costed better solution for him, maybe I ought to?

 

[Demon]

Get a grip I equated 'much older' with 'tatty' I didnt accuse you of murder.

Really, you singled me out, told me I'm the worst for it, etc, etc, Don't call me out on stuff if you don't want to get corrected on your mistakes.

No one is disagreeing with? Thread seems pretty full of disagreement to me!

Indeed, and that's forums..


[edit] ignore the rest, have we all had a deep breath now?

 

[matt_fsr]

I've not actually bothered to table a costed better solution for him, maybe I ought to?

Only if it involves a Bimmer!

 

[[TW]Fox]

Being super fluffy doesnt work either.

I was nice enough to give some fake praise first of all after all

Oh and FWIW I don't think £25k 335i's are a good buy either

 

[Demon]

Being super fluffy doesnt work either.

I was nice enough to give some fake praise first of all after all

Oh and FWIW I don't think £25k 335i's are a good buy either

If I had £25k to spend/waste/whatever on a car, that'd be very high up my list.. Shocker

 

[[TW]Fox]

Oh its a fantastic, fantastic car (I really want one) but £25k is lots of money and it is a BMW 3 Series

 

[Adz]

Buying a new car is an extravagance, it is not a sensible way to spend your money but the same is true of the £5k of tat many on this site will add to their shed to 'make it betta' when in reality it's money spunked up the wall that will probably never be seen again......like the draw full of super powerful graphics cards I have that won't play Chuckie Egg these days or the boxes full of PC bits that cost and arm and a leg and are now worthless! To keep bringing up the fact that a new car is wasted money is missing the fact that not every decision in life, not least where a luxury is concerned, is made with a spreadsheet. I think we can all agree that there is NO financial justification for a new car, lets park that.

Now, funding. The vast majority of people who finance cars take a bath, they have happy ears on because they are about to get a new car and the salesman sniffs that and sells them up....in their mind. You'll notice how many financial guys in dealers have pictures of smashed up cars around them........"this is what happens when you don't have GAP" is the line they take and people suck it up. Having said this, how many people other than Foxy keep a car longer than say 2-3 years? If you don't then WHY THE HELL are you bothered if it's your car or not. This has zero effect on it's value and if funded efficiently and you want to use it as a car what does it matter if the car is yours or Mr Banks, not least if you fund it in such a way that you are not exposed should you need to get out quickly.......which is you have £20K in the bank in cash you are less likely to need to of course........well unless that £20K is spunked into a car.

It's not black and white......life isn't black and white. If your primary focus is money then why new and why finance. If your primary focus is a new car then money is not an issue to you and buy something you can afford to fund and, more importantly, doesn't leave you in a bad situation if you MUST get out of it.......which is where many go wrong.

It's nice to skip straight to the last page of a thread and find a rational, sensible, unbiased summary which makes the last 9 pages of 'discussion' quite irrelevant in my view.

If you're very clever with PCP or leasing you might actually beat the depreciation curve - either by having a GFV substantially less than the residual value of the car or by having a GFV substantially more and finding that you've actually saved money, even factoring in the interest, compared to buying the car outright and selling 3 years later.

 

[Biohazard]

Why?

Seems bang on to me.

"this will never be your car because it belongs to Volkswagen Financial Services"

No one can say to someone who bought a car on credit that they will never own it, I see the point Fox was trying to make, but it is wrong. Should they keep the car and pay off the finance, they very much do own the car.

(without taking into consideration that in reality, no one actually owns their vehicle at all. They are legally only the registered keepers as far as the state is concerned, the state owns our cars. the money involved in buying is irrelevent to the legal standing)

 

[[TW]Fox]

If you're very clever with PCP or leasing

Then you wouldnt be walking out of a main dealer with the first PCP you've been offered including GAP insurance.

THIS is my point.

There are times when leasing makes a big case for itself. Usually when manufacturers run ridiculous offers aimed at producing more used stock. Audi did it for a while with 2.0 TDI A6's, BMW have just finished doing it with 635d's (£400 a month!?!?!) but you can bet your bottom dollar VW are not doing it bundled with GAP on base Sciroccos