**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****
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well the problem we seem to have is if we rush them they can fend off our attack with either mass zerglings or baylings (dunno how to spell) and they also seem to be able to early expand and still get enough units to counter our rush, so if we dont rush and try and do a mmm and tech and try and sit back they just bayling bust us and come in with mass roach.
I have just been watching those terran videos and one thing im interested in is he says you should always expand on around 3:45 or something like that, but should we do that everygame?
We normally start with one of us doing a 3 rax marine and i go 2 rax mara which seems to work pretty well againest anyone expect double zerg, we tend to atleast kill one person if not both of them with that strat, but obviously when we play better and better players that doesnt work, but we then normally can transition into mech and mmm or tech and air or whatever we feel we need to go to counter them.
I feel that we need to force the game into mid/late game because once we get a good mech ball we should stand a better chance againest zerg, but we never seem to be able to get it to that stage because there zergling and baylings are so strong at the start.
I have just been watching those terran videos and one thing im interested in is he says you should always expand on around 3:45 or something like that, but should we do that everygame?
We normally start with one of us doing a 3 rax marine and i go 2 rax mara which seems to work pretty well againest anyone expect double zerg, we tend to atleast kill one person if not both of them with that strat, but obviously when we play better and better players that doesnt work, but we then normally can transition into mech and mmm or tech and air or whatever we feel we need to go to counter them.
I feel that we need to force the game into mid/late game because once we get a good mech ball we should stand a better chance againest zerg, but we never seem to be able to get it to that stage because there zergling and baylings are so strong at the start.
If your new to the game I suggest you aim to learn the game better through 1v1 ladders and the Liquipedia. I remember when I first started and I only played team games with a friend, you won't learn what you need to in a team game.
Btw no you shouldn't expand at 3:45. You just need to make sure you expand before 10minutes. If you're doing a common build you will know when you should expand because you'll have 400minerals and no way to get rid of it without using bad macro.
Apollo is a great casterI've enjoyed Incontrol as well, guy cracks me up.
IMO his knowledge isn't that great.
Incontrol is a great guy though, so is Machine.
I realise everyone has a bias and SC2 is probably unable to be properly balanced.
Btw you're very wrong, I have two EU accounts and 1 US. 1 for each race and i'm a Masters Toss/Terran and a Diamond Zerg. When I play the playhem daily which I do most days I roll Random.
My bias is not from just being raped repeatedly as Terran by Protoss AOE, it's what I know from playing both races and the huge problem in TvP is that past the 10minute mark the army composition for Terran has to be MMM(With G and/or V).
A 1/1/1 is simple to hold as Protoss because it's become so common, it's the 2rax situation currently happening. When something is trending it becomes easier to stop because more people do it and more ways to counter it or nullify it are being discussed or put into play.
Either way the 111 or any variation is shutdown by a robo which should be placed somewhere between your 1st and 4th gateway.
I laughed when you mentioned Muta Harass and not Infestors XD AOE Imba
I'm only curious, but if you play diamond zerg would you not think zvp is quite in favour of z at the moment? and might offset the pvt imbalance many are talking about?
........for protoss that is.
compared to some though
DId you see the mlg a month back when Rob Simpson thought an armory in tvp meant thors?O yea Naff, ZvP is definitely Zerg favoured atm but that's due to Stephanos play style and I know Mass Mutas can be a problem at times but the phoenix upgrade has stopped that mostly.
I agree with a lot of casters on Stephanos style as being just slightly all-in, if you survive the mass roaches then you will be in a great position.
I find the mechanic of Zerg being able to max at like 13-14min not too unfair seeing as IMO the only things that can save a 200vs200 supply army for Zerg is Broodlords,Blings or Infestors.
Yea I saw him make that blunder, I've seen casters make some stupid calls. I can't remember whose game it was (Maybe Thorzain?) I saw him do a 2base 111 all-in with +2 thors,banshees and marines in a TvP. It won and was hilarious.
It was a online tournament game and it was a well-known pro.
I agree with a lot of casters on Stephanos style as being just slightly all-in, if you survive the mass roaches then you will be in a great position.
I find the mechanic of Zerg being able to max at like 13-14min not too unfair seeing as IMO the only things that can save a 200vs200 supply army for Zerg is Broodlords,Blings or Infestors.
Yea I saw him make that blunder, I've seen casters make some stupid calls. I can't remember whose game it was (Maybe Thorzain?) I saw him do a 2base 111 all-in with +2 thors,banshees and marines in a TvP. It won and was hilarious.
It was a online tournament game and it was a well-known pro.
I know I am in the minority in thinking this, but for me he is completely undeserving of the fame / acclaim he's been on the end of recently. All I see is a guy that plays the game at quite a high level thus has a fairly decent knowledge-base, but with absolutely no charisma, a completely awkward casting style and a seemingly complete inability to annunciate the letter "T"... okay, maybe that last point is a personal annoyance and not something I can be too harsh on him about.Apollo is a great caster
When he's casting alongside the likes of incontrol and Wolf it baffles me that people cannot see how completely inferior he is. He could get away with being a dullard if his knowledge of the game and analysis of the play was completely top notch - like, beyond Artosis levels - but those two guys I mentioned are only a couple of many that also beat him in that regard. And with the likes of Tastosis, Bitterdam, Day9 etc. throwing in excellent banter, wit and all-round entertainment with their high level knowledge, it simply doesn't make sense to me that somebody lacking in every department has seemingly shot to the top of the casting tree (well, not completely... yet) in such a short space of time.
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It's thanks to Dignitas and probably there being a very small uk community so he's the most well known. I can't stand the guy either.
haha Christ, fair enough. I see you aren't particularly fond of him. As a zerg player I get tired of Tasteless constantly gunning for anyone but the zerg and for his lack of any real knowledge. Although Artosis, best caster there is, pulls it altogether. Apollo can have fairly bad synergy with other casters but then so does Day9. Often with Apollo it can become the Apollo show but that's a show worth watching for me, the way he hypes stuff up etc.
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A-moving an MM ball doesn't work very well against zealots. And blink micro is easy. Marine splitting is waaaay harder and requires more APM and mouse accuracy. Also if you screw it up you don't lose 1 stalker, you lose like 10 marines.
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^ that guy is awesome. I'm a diamond player but I've still picked up a decent amount from his videos so far, and I'm only on the "platinum league" one. I like how his 1 rax expo, into 3/1/1 building group is so versatile. I think I'll start using that as my standard eco build in all matchups (as well as having one or two more all-in ones). I used to throw down 3 barracks after the expo, for a total of 4, but I found that the tech timings weren't very good and the gas didn't work out nicely. Obviously with one less rax 1 or 2 base all-ins are harder to deal with, but an extra bunker or two should compensate.
You referring to what most pros do on stream at the start?
It's to keep their hands warm and used to moving fast. Basically they'd rather keep at a constant speed instead of suddenly faster.
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True. Ath the moment though I am still pretty bad at the game so a I find almost any type of micro hard , still sitting pretty at 45 apm :L
Probably only useful for Pro level APM. I can hover around 150+ at times and I don't feel any pain or problems of slowly getting faster because most of us aren't going to be moving loads.
I macro like an elephant XD