**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

[SheepBeast]

I think range 4 would have been much better. When something needs buffed/nerfed, they always do it about twice as much as is necessary. Marines should definitely be able to kite queens off creep.

Also I thought the reason for the extra energy was to get creep spread going earlier. How is giving a queen better range at all connected with that.

 

[Kamwah]

The extra energy was definitely for creep. It was supposed to make Hellions not as effective. I have no idea why though...

The last time I ran straight into a Zergs natural with my first 4 hellions after a reactor hellion opening was back in gold league at the start of last year sometime =/

 

[simbady]

It was supposed to make Hellions not as effective. I have no idea why though...

I would guess that with the faster creep tumour you can get creep down the ramp of your natural faster, this would also make creep harder to deny. Once the creep is down the ramp you can much easier move a queen down and not be kited or move spines down. The extra creep may also allow you to straight out kill the hellion with speed ling if the hellions come too deep onto the creep.
Honestly I'm glad they removed it I feel like on maps like Antiga being able to push creep out faster will only mean a faster third base for Zerg which otherwise may of been denied by hellions.
Here is a list of things that will be affected by the range buff assuming it passes.

All matchups:
• Queens will sit further behind your army when defending attacks, in a safer area. It will be noticeably easier to keep them alive.
• 1 queen will be able to kill a scouting worker than runs right by the queen now! (if the scout tries to skirt around the queen it should survive, provided it's not at a choke) Also of course it will be harder to fully scout for what buildings zerg's made.
• (probably not worth reading The unique situations where you built many queens to defend vs air, and you didn't take much damage, and then decide to counterattack because they're vulnerable (often they are depending on their air units to keep them temporarily alive, which is where your queens come in). Well now if you attack with army + queens, queens will probably hit ground stuff now too.
ZvT:
• Queens will be quite a bit better at pushing back a hellion 'contain' (so you can safely spread tumors)
• Will help defend bunker rushes (attacking scvs building bunkers, marines).
• Hellions (range 5), marines (5), and reapers (4.5), will no longer kite queens without taking hits. They will just generally be better at dealing with most terran units as they are no longer outranged by most of them.
ZvP:
• Stalkers (range 6) harassing queens will be slightly easier on the zerg
• Defending zealot harass slightly better
• Very situationally help vs cannon rushes (particularly the 3 pylon wall below ramp can be safely hit now by a queen. It takes exactly 1 ingame minute for a queen to kill 1 pylon.)
• Just generally be a little more useful at fending off early rushes or small attacks.
ZvZ:
• When you've 2 queens blocking ramp while lings attack your spine/s, now your queen can often attack back while standing there.
• Better at denying baneling run-bys
• A bit better at dealing with ling harassment
• Hatch-first builds in particular will be slightly easier to do/better than it is now.
• Situationally vs roaches (queens will outrange them), like when they're on hold position behind your mineral line when they went around your spines.
• Some zvz timings involve roaches/queens/infestors (usually vs muta builds) so they may be marginally more useful there (though they're mostly for antiair and transfuse still).

 

[opethdisciple]

Is it too late for me to get ths game?

 

[Kamwah]

Is it too late for me to get ths game?

Nope, you can get it whenever you want. An expansion should be coming sometime within the next year which'll change most of the game mechanics so everyone will have to learn it again.

 

[Tune]

Is it too late for me to get ths game?

Hell no, its never too late, you'll always be matched with people your skill level, and theres 2 more expansions to come out yet! Can get it whenever you want.

 

[PaddyMC89]

Is it too late for me to get ths game?

We're all still noobs at the game, relatively speaking.

 

[Kamwah]

Playing like absolute **** today. Went 5-11 on the ladder and a good 10 of those games were against Zerg.

Finding it so hard recently to expand past two bases in TvZ. I'm about to just give up as Terran and go play EZ PZ Toss =/

 

[SheepBeast]

Is it too late for me to get ths game?

get it get it get it. You won't be disappointed even if you only play the campaign. Add in the incredible multiplayer and all the custom games and it's a winner. Also like others have said there are still two expansions to come which will be awesome

 

[Tune]

Playing like absolute **** today. Went 5-11 on the ladder and a good 10 of those games were against Zerg.

Finding it so hard recently to expand past two bases in TvZ. I'm about to just give up as Terran and go play EZ PZ Toss =/

Do it, you'll find its not as EZPZ as your making out, but i agree with the taking a 3rd vs zerg, its pretty hard imo :/

 

[SheepBeast]

Do it, you'll find its not as EZPZ as your making out, but i agree with the taking a 3rd vs zerg, its pretty hard imo :/

IIRC Kamwah already has a protoss account at master level.

I've considered jumping ship and switching, but I'd feel cheap. Terran's just so much more awesome than the other races and my biggest strength is my micro which I wouldn't really get to use as much.

 

[Tune]

Yeah i have a toss account but i dont like it, pvp is boring and funny enough i cant win pvt. Just doesnt work out for me :/ Prefer terran, if zvz wasnt so annoying i would play zerg.

 

[SheepBeast]

Yeah i have a toss account but i dont like it, pvp is boring and funny enough i cant win pvt. Just doesnt work out for me :/ Prefer terran, if zvz wasnt so annoying i would play zerg.

If you can't win PvT then there are a few things to try. Most terran 1-rax expand. At the platinum/low diamond level most 1-rax expanding terrans will find it very hard to hold off a well executed 3-gate robo.

What are you losing to in the matchup - is it 1/1/1s, or drops, or mid game stim+conc+shield and medivac pushes? Or 2 rax pressure? Or just late game deathball vs massed bio?

I agree that PvP sucks, as does ZvZ. Despite many people's hatred for TvT it is in fact the most dynamic and skill-based of the mirror matchups.

Just a random note. It's only just now struck me the reason for terran having two very distinct styles (mech or bio). It's because they each have a mineral sink, and because they have different upgrades which means mixing the two doesn't work that well. Never thought about it like that before. This explains why other races have less black and white styles because they only have 1 mineral sink, ie P will always have zealots and Z will always have lings cos they've nothing else to buy.

 

[Kamwah]

IIRC Kamwah already has a protoss account at master level.

I've considered jumping ship and switching, but I'd feel cheap. Terran's just so much more awesome than the other races and my biggest strength is my micro which I wouldn't really get to use as much.

Sheep is correct. I was originally a Terran player, I switched to Toss and got bored so I went Terran gain. During that time I bought the 3 accounts I use now for each race.

Yeah i have a toss account but i dont like it, pvp is boring and funny enough i cant win pvt. Just doesnt work out for me :/ Prefer terran, if zvz wasnt so annoying i would play zerg.

Ye PvP is annoying. I go charge lot archon in all my games vt and vz.

If you can't win PvT then there are a few things to try. Most terran 1-rax expand. At the platinum/low diamond level most 1-rax expanding terrans will find it very hard to hold off a well executed 3-gate robo.

What are you losing to in the matchup - is it 1/1/1s, or drops, or mid game stim+conc+shield and medivac pushes? Or 2 rax pressure? Or just late game deathball vs massed bio?

I agree that PvP sucks, as does ZvZ. Despite many people's hatred for TvT it is in fact the most dynamic and skill-based of the mirror matchups.

Just a random note. It's only just now struck me the reason for terran having two very distinct styles (mech or bio). It's because they each have a mineral sink, and because they have different upgrades which means mixing the two doesn't work that well. Never thought about it like that before. This explains why other races have less black and white styles because they only have 1 mineral sink, ie P will always have zealots and Z will always have lings cos they've nothing else to buy.

PvT has one key unit. Sentrys. These guys will keep you alive for 10mins as long as you have zealots to do the killing.

 

[Tune]

Was mainly losing vs late game marine maurader, but i havnt really played toss since i was low/mid gold, im high plat now so would have a better time probably,but i would prefer to get better at terran anyway, and yeah pvp and zvz are annoying but i love TvT, some games get annoying like earlier i played vs a proxy cloaked banshee and that was a bit frustrating but most tvts are really fun to play.

 

[Lithon]

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1_Rax_FE_into_3_Rax_Stim

Is this build worth investing a lot of time into? I'm a gold terran and I want to grind out nothing but 1 build to perfect it as best I can, as trying multiple builds isn't working for me due to only getting to play a few games a day.

The main problem I've initially come across is denying any scouting, unless I go for another supply depot before the CC, but this slows down the build as a whole. Also knowing when to build at the natural or leave it in the main and float it down, is this purely a pre-made decision or map based etc?

 

[Kamwah]

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1_Rax_FE_into_3_Rax_Stim

Is this build worth investing a lot of time into? I'm a gold terran and I want to grind out nothing but 1 build to perfect it as best I can, as trying multiple builds isn't working for me due to only getting to play a few games a day.

The main problem I've initially come across is denying any scouting, unless I go for another supply depot before the CC, but this slows down the build as a whole. Also knowing when to build at the natural or leave it in the main and float it down, is this purely a pre-made decision or map based etc?

A 1rax gas less fe is risky at that level due to the amount of cheese. It'll get you better at handling aggression though.

You build it on the low ground if you feel safe.

Going straight into stim after a FE is also a terrible choice.

 

[Lithon]

Going straight into stim after a FE is also a terrible choice.

How come? Wouldn't you need it being so bio heavy at the beginning? Could you recommend somewhere with some good staple builds to learn?

 

[Kamwah]

How come? Wouldn't you need it being so bio heavy at the beginning? Could you recommend somewhere with some good staple builds to learn?

Because if you FE your army will be significantly smaller than your opponents and you haven't got medivacs. Combat shields gives you the survivability you want with such low numbers so that's what you go for first IMO. Unless your doing some kind of stim timing vs Protoss.

In TvT if you go for a FE then it's best to do a reaper expand (which should be on Liquipedia) and if you find out your opponent is also FE you choose combat shields if you plan to play defensive or stim if you want to be the aggressor.

In TvZ it would depend on what I scouted as far as which bio upgrade to get first.


Liquipedia has a lot of builds but a lot of them are quite outdated. Teamliquids forum has a strategy section which has hundreds of builds ranging from safe to outright gimmicky. I believe sc2builds is a website, I haven't used it before but I know some people who have.

Once you get to a point where you understand the matchups which can happen in any league you'll realise that it's best to learn builds and that as Terran they're mostly all quite basic and don't require too much memory.

 

[SheepBeast]

I agree with Kamwah that Combat Shield is a better choice than stim, most of the time.

If you go for the 4rax variation of the 1 rax FE (throw down 3 extra rax before getting your double gas), get 2 reactors and 1 tech lab at 125 gas, then push out as soon as combat shield finishes you can do quite a lot of damage if the enemy is teching too hard or just sucks at macro.