**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

got 6 pooled for 3 out of the four games I played last night. even though I don't FFe any more against zerg as I get 6 pooled so much I still find it really hard to hold it off.
If I scout and see it coming then I wall in totally and then crono out zealots but they all ways seem to break down my wall in then i have to pull probes and I keep loosing zealots to fight them off while they just get more and more lings until I have been over run.

Any advise guys ?
 
RiseAgainst said:
got 6 pooled for 3 out of the four games I played last night. even though I don't FFe any more against zerg as I get 6 pooled so much I still find it really hard to hold it off.
If I scout and see it coming then I wall in totally and then crono out zealots but they all ways seem to break down my wall in then i have to pull probes and I keep loosing zealots to fight them off while they just get more and more lings until I have been over run.

Any advise guys ?
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Make sure to block off using your gateway and cybernetics core. I've found this makes the hole smaller and it's a tighter squeeze than pylon and gateway.

If he comes in with lings. Try your best to get the zealot block up as soon as possible and fight with your workers. The Zerg will not be ahead economically even if you lose 4/5 workers. As soon as possible after the zealot get a sentry out and just ff the ramp if you see anything trying to get up.
After that I'd probably just 4gate.
 
Kamwah said:
Make sure to block off using your gateway and cybernetics core. I've found this makes the hole smaller and it's a tighter squeeze than pylon and gateway.

If he comes in with lings. Try your best to get the zealot block up as soon as possible and fight with your workers. The Zerg will not be ahead economically even if you lose 4/5 workers. As soon as possible after the zealot get a sentry out and just ff the ramp if you see anything trying to get up.
After that I'd probably just 4gate.
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Yeah I normally do that wall off but he will just kill off the cyber and then i have no tech and he has about 8 lings in. I was getting really really annoyed at this last night.
Just the fact that I have a much better win ratio when it goes to the late game normally so I much prefer that
 
RiseAgainst said:
Yeah I normally do that wall off but he will just kill off the cyber and then i have no tech and he has about 8 lings in. I was getting really really annoyed at this last night.
Just the fact that I have a much better win ratio when it goes to the late game normally so I much prefer that
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All toss matchups = better late game XD

If he's killing your cybernetics core to get in your not getting the sentry out fast enough. If you mean he's getting in then killing it off just be aggressive with your workers.
 
Kamwah said:
....If you mean he's getting in then killing it off just be aggressive with your workers.
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Handy trick if you get a decent surround going with your workers: as the lings take down their shields right click them individually back to a mineral line away from the battle. They'll 'phase' through each other to get back avoiding death. Handy way to keep them alive when burning through those lings.

Also remember the old rallying to one mineral patch then attacking trick for an instant surround. Meanwhile secure the front and you should be good to go :)


It might be worth just doing a couple practice games to make sure you can handle it, i'm sure someone in the OcUK chat will happily 6 pool you 10 times to help you sort it out :) (i would but i'm in ultimate exam stress phase atm so no SC2 before june/july)
 
Kamwah said:
Don't fall into the crowd that just says cheese is for bad players.
Obviously you're correct that lower league players won't improve by it but even in the higher leagues there is cheese and a lot of it.

All great players regularly cheese and play macro games.
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Oh totally, there are some awesome cheese plays, didn't mean to say they were useless, but I don't think people should be trying them until they know more than just the build order and attack timing.

To properly execute cheese, you need to know why it is working, what to do once the cheese is over, how to react to the counter etc.

I think that cheese will win you bronze/silver/gold games for the shock factor. As soon as you are in the higher leagues the cheese isn't an auto win it just gets you a nice lead, and you need to be able to take advantage of that lead.
 
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Southy_ said:
Oh totally, there are some awesome cheese plays, didn't mean to say they were useless, but I don't think people should be trying them until they know more than just the build order and attack timing.

To properly execute cheese, you need to know why it is working, what to do once the cheese is over, how to react to the counter etc.

I think that cheese will win you bronze/silver/gold games for the shock factor. As soon as you are in the higher leagues the cheese isn't an auto win it just gets you a nice lead, and you need to be able to take advantage of that lead.
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Name a cheese that isn't an all-in ;)
 
Forge expand cannon rush doesn't have to be all-in.
DT Rush can transition into HT with a big lead if you kill enough workers.

Granted many cheesy builds are all-ins, but I was under the impression that 'cheese' is just an unexpected tech, not necessarily an all-in? maybe that is just my opinion.

An all-in implies that if your attack fails, then you lose, if it succeeds, you win. Like a 6-pool.
A good cannon rush doesn't have to cripple your economy.
 
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Southy_ said:
Forge expand cannon rush doesn't have to be all-in.
DT Rush can transition into HT with a big lead if you kill enough workers.

Granted many cheesy builds are all-ins, but I was under the impression that 'cheese' is just an unexpected tech, not necessarily an all-in? maybe that is just my opinion.

An all-in implies that if your attack fails, then you lose, if it succeeds, you win. Like a 6-pool.
A good cannon rush doesn't have to cripple your economy.
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A lot of people have varying opinions on what cheese is. IMO cheeses are just all-ins and if they're scouted they're easily countered. When they fail it's always a GG situation unless your opponent fails miserably somewhere.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Cheese

^ I'd go by that if there ever was a correct definition.
 
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Yeah, see, I always classed hidden tech as cheese.

So not doing a void ray rush, but just hiding the void ray TECH away from your main or nat, maybe a proxy, but getting them at the normal time for a protoss air build. I class that as a 'cheesy' build, easily countered if scouted, but not a GG.

Specifically hiding the tech building, just having a proxy pylon for a gateway push isn't cheesy, that is just protoss mechanics.

Guess it is all opinion at the end of the day, what one person counts as 'cheese' can be quite subjective.
 
I played this ages ago (I was even in the beta right from the beginning) but I had a few problems with it:

1. I got sick of protoss.

2. I was terrible at it.

3. I was stuck in bronze league.

I've looked around for information on how to play SC2 properly, but I really can't find anything. Do people have any guides etc for a complete newb, something that might get me out of the frustrating ditch of constantly losing? I'll be switching to Zerg, I think. I like the general style of Zerg. Protoss is a boring as hell.
 
Daichin said:
I played this ages ago (I was even in the beta right from the beginning) but I had a few problems with it:

1. I got sick of protoss.

2. I was terrible at it.

3. I was stuck in bronze league.

I've looked around for information on how to play SC2 properly, but I really can't find anything. Do people have any guides etc for a complete newb, something that might get me out of the frustrating ditch of constantly losing? I'll be switching to Zerg, I think. I like the general style of Zerg. Protoss is a boring as hell.
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Take a look at FilterSC Bronze to Masters series, very terran based, but a really good set of tutorials for working on mechanics.

Or Apollo's Series, much more spread on races, but not as good on really low level mechanics.
 
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Protoss is imba Daichin. Anyone who disagrees needs a slap XD

Don't bother with Filtersc or dApollo.

Go straight to the King of SC2 teaching. Day9.tv
 
Day9 is awesome. Newbie tuesday is really helpful, but only in one specific area.
Filter and Apollo both work from the bottom up covering everything, which I prefer.
You should watch day9 though, just cause he is so funny.
 
Southy_ said:
Day9 is awesome. Newbie tuesday is really helpful, but only in one specific area.
Filter and Apollo both work from the bottom up covering everything, which I prefer.
You should watch day9 though, just cause he is so funny.
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He's been doing it for years though. If you can't find the daily that caters to your specific needs then you should mail him cos that's how he decides what to do for his dailys.
 
There is a lot of that FilterSC stuff, woah. I tried starting watching the dApollo stuff but 4 hours of it seems a bit much and it was really un-entertaining. Guess my low attention span is getting the better of me, there.

Thinking perhaps I'd like to jump straight in with some basic build orders and stuff and consult these videos when I run into troubles. I watched the first one of those Day9 things a while ago and as I recall it was pretty helpful (I did actually get out of bronze and into silver at one point, must have done that somehow), so perhaps I'll re-watch that and hopefully it'll refresh my memory a little bit.
 
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