**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

Lithon said:
How come? Wouldn't you need it being so bio heavy at the beginning? Could you recommend somewhere with some good staple builds to learn?
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Look up filtersc on youtube and watch his bronze to masters series. The build he does is very standard and versatile, and in the later he videos he goes over different tweaks you can do to radically change how it plays out in each matchup.

He does go stim before combat shield which I'm not sure about, but I guess that does let him kite zealots in TvP with his 10min push. IMO combat shields + conc is superior to stim.
 
SheepBeast said:
I agree with Kamwah that Combat Shield is a better choice than stim, most of the time.

If you go for the 4rax variation of the 1 rax FE (throw down 3 extra rax before getting your double gas), get 2 reactors and 1 tech lab at 125 gas, then push out as soon as combat shield finishes you can do quite a lot of damage if the enemy is teching too hard or just sucks at macro.
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4Rax is the MKP variation. You can also go double gas after and go into a 111 variation.

In the GSL atm theres a popular 5rax but it's all-in'ish but you can throw down 3gas straight after and go for a very strong Marauder/Marine upgrade push.

SheepBeast said:
Look up filtersc on youtube and watch his bronze to masters series. The build he does is very standard and versatile, and in the later he videos he goes over different tweaks you can do to radically change how it plays out in each matchup.

He does go stim before combat shield which I'm not sure about, but I guess that does let him kite zealots in TvP with his 10min push. IMO combat shields + conc is superior to stim.
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He goes Stim because if the Protoss has equal unit numbers then you won't win the engagement.
 
SheepBeast said:
So I assume that the choice of stim is as much to give the ability to retreat as it is to increase offensive capability?
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I guess it could but you'd stim once into them, maybe a second time during the fight depending on if he pulls probes.

A third to retreat = dead army.

Having an absolute **** time on ladder these past two days. I'm just gna stop playing for a while. I used to never have a problem with any race and now I can't do anything but all-ins on Zerg and Toss.
O well, I'll start playing again next season probably.
 
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Kamwah said:
I guess it could but you'd stim once into them, maybe a second time during the fight depending on if he pulls probes.

A third to retreat = dead army.

Having an absolute **** time on ladder these past two days. I'm just gna stop playing for a while. I used to never have a problem with any race and now I can't do anything but all-ins on Zerg and Toss.
O well, I'll start playing again next season probably.
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Hmm. In that kind of situation I think in TvP and TvT combat shield is better. CS marines vs stim marines is kind of a massacre, and CS also helps greatly against stalkers. Against zerg kiting is more essential so I guess stim would be better.

Sucks man. Everyone has bad sprees though and they're invariably followed by pwnage afterwards when you face lower MMR players. I'll be getting into SC properly next season too after my exams. NA master is definitely achieveable if I just played more often :).

Hopefully HOTS will inject some life into the community and gameplay. I love the game still and I still find it great fun, but I feel the community is shrinking at a pretty large rate and that worries me. SC2 is like the only game I've played except CoD in the past 2 years.
 
Kamwah said:
Sheepbeast came in to stalk me casting like a noob today XD
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:D

Kamwah said:
Showing how bad I am at Zerg.

twitch.tv/thekamwah
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Too busy to watch for long but I tuned in for about 5 mins. Saw you ragequit after a cannon went up in your natural on Korhal "protoss imba" lol. Think you just needed to pull more drones faster. Bloody annoying though.
 
SheepBeast said:
:D



Too busy to watch for long but I tuned in for about 5 mins. Saw you ragequit after a cannon went up in your natural on Korhal "protoss imba" lol. Think you just needed to pull more drones faster. Bloody annoying though.
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Yea I know, I had the settings up on stream too high and it wasn't running too smooth >.<

Cannon rush imba!
 
Can someone give me some pointers for surviving/predicting protoss cheese?

about 75% of my losses vs toss is from cheese and I just never seem prepared for it. I get cannon rushed so scout and see 1 gateway in their base, but don't see hidden 2 gates at my 3rd with teaming zealots pouring into my base etc.

What are the early signs I should be doing to avoid getting cheesed? Should I have a second probe scout around my main while my first scout reaches their base?

I'm a relatively inexperienced silver/gold protoss so looking in ways I can improve and losing to toss cheese seems like my Achilles heel at the mo. have about a 20% survival rate.
 
HankScorpio said:
Can someone give me some pointers for surviving/predicting protoss cheese?

about 75% of my losses vs toss is from cheese and I just never seem prepared for it. I get cannon rushed so scout and see 1 gateway in their base, but don't see hidden 2 gates at my 3rd with teaming zealots pouring into my base etc.

What are the early signs I should be doing to avoid getting cheesed? Should I have a second probe scout around my main while my first scout reaches their base?

I'm a relatively inexperienced silver/gold protoss so looking in ways I can improve and losing to toss cheese seems like my Achilles heel at the mo. have about a 20% survival rate.
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A 3gate with 2gates proxy sounds incredibly random and rare.

You can set a worker on patrol at your ramp if you really want to be safe. After that, if he tries to 4gate you or anykind of proxy ****, just make sure to get our a Zealot,Stalker then Sentry. Kite with the stalker and you can't lose. FF the ramp aswell.

You should scout after Pylon and keep your worker in there alive as long as possible. It's something lower league players have trouble doing or just don't keep it in there. He should take a gas at 13/14 supply when you do and if he doesn't take gas then he's probably proxy 2gate'ing.

If he cannon rushes, 3/4 probes is all you need to pull to kill a cannon before it finishes.


::: Kinda tired so this may not make sense. If you have any Qs, just ask :P
 
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HankScorpio said:
Can someone give me some pointers for surviving/predicting protoss cheese?

about 75% of my losses vs toss is from cheese and I just never seem prepared for it. I get cannon rushed so scout and see 1 gateway in their base, but don't see hidden 2 gates at my 3rd with teaming zealots pouring into my base etc.

What are the early signs I should be doing to avoid getting cheesed? Should I have a second probe scout around my main while my first scout reaches their base?

I'm a relatively inexperienced silver/gold protoss so looking in ways I can improve and losing to toss cheese seems like my Achilles heel at the mo. have about a 20% survival rate.
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I agree with everything Kamwah said. The main cheeses you should prepare for are 2 gate proxy, cannon rush, and proxy void rays. Any other form of cheese is rare enough that it doesn't matter if you lose to it, it's not worth spending energy preparing for it every game.

In all matchups, always send you probe which builds the 9 pylon to scout, and keep it running in circles around your opponents base seeing what he's up to. Obviously if you see a forge go up then you know there's a cannon rush coming, so all you need to do is make sure you spot the pylon in/near your base. As Kamwah said just pull 4 probes to focus it down, meanwhile continue your normal build and try to get 1 zealot and then a stalker ASAP. Pull probes as necessary to stop cannons finishing, and you should be fine. The best way to punish your opponent for cannon rushing is to meanwhile use your scouting probe to build a pylon in the corner of their base. Then when you've fended off the cannon rush and warp gate finishes, you can warp a couple of zealots in their base and they won't have anything but probes (chances are their defensive cannons are at their ramp) so it should be gg.

Scouting for a 2 gate proxy is much the same. If you see they haven't put down a gateway on 13ish in their base then you know there's something gay going down. The counter to this is less clear. It can be very hard to stop their pylon and gates finishing in your base if the enemy has positioned them skillfully (in a corner with gateways walling off pylon). In this situation you should immediately throw down a forge and get a cannon in your mineral line. If zealots come before the cannon finishes, try to lead them on a wild goose chase. If he starts focusing the cannon, then just attack the zealots and micro probes back before they die. Situationally, it might be a better strategy to surround the cannon with your probes as it builds and put them on hold position. The zealot won't attack anything unless your opponent specifically targets it on a probe, and he'll need to keep doing this. Considering your league, he won't be capable of very good multitasking hence hopefully he'll screw himself over just as much as you.

Proxy voids is fairly obvious. Early double gas. Scout in areas near your base where a pylon could be hidden at about 5mins. Get as many stalkers as you can.
 
Thanks for replies guys and yeah at my league the rushers are ****ing dreadful, I'm just unprepared to counter it since I'm focused on getting cybercore and robo bays then suddenly I have a load of zealots or cannons in my base. Just earlier I was able to kite around 3 zealots with a single probe for about 2 minutes in my base while boosting my own out 1 at a time but more were pouring in... ARG

Yep I used to do that patrol around the base but took a break from the game and I feel like I'm at bronze level now and have forgotten everything!
 
I am just getting back into SC after quite a long break.
Starting from bronze again, and I just try and ignore really bad cheese games.
Those players that are playing cheesy all ins are not improving, and are not going to be in the higher leagues.

Practice and getting better at defensive play will eventually beat cheesy play, especially those stupid cheesy all ins.

PvP is probably the worst for cheese, SheepBeast gave good advice on how to beat them. Unfortunately although I found that crappy cheeses tend to fall away with higher leagues, PvP is still fairly bad, the temptation is to start cheesing PvP yourself, this isn't a great idea, you don't improve by cheesing.
I play terran now, but when I was playing protoss I just assumed I was getting cheesed in PvP and played defensive macro every game.

Take a look at dApollo's bronze to masters guide http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdGC4nfM56Q&list=PL0B7058D9D46661D1&index=5&feature=plpp_video, it isn't as good as filtersc in terms of building up your skills, but his PvP builds are quite nice.
 
Southy_ said:
I am just getting back into SC after quite a long break.
Starting from bronze again, and I just try and ignore really bad cheese games.
Those players that are playing cheesy all ins are not improving, and are not going to be in the higher leagues.

Practice and getting better at defensive play will eventually beat cheesy play, especially those stupid cheesy all ins.

PvP is probably the worst for cheese, SheepBeast gave good advice on how to beat them. Unfortunately although I found that crappy cheeses tend to fall away with higher leagues, PvP is still fairly bad, the temptation is to start cheesing PvP yourself, this isn't a great idea, you don't improve by cheesing.
I play terran now, but when I was playing protoss I just assumed I was getting cheesed in PvP and played defensive macro every game.

Take a look at dApollo's bronze to masters guide http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdGC4nfM56Q&list=PL0B7058D9D46661D1&index=5&feature=plpp_video, it isn't as good as filtersc in terms of building up your skills, but his PvP builds are quite nice.
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Don't fall into the crowd that just says cheese is for bad players.
Obviously you're correct that lower league players won't improve by it but even in the higher leagues there is cheese and a lot of it.

All great players regularly cheese and play macro games.
 
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