**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

Switching to Toss full time.

Terran need to do damage early game or needs impeccable control to win.

It's a joke. Terran need some lategame upgrade so they can keep up with production rather than them needing micro of MVP.
 
BC raven ghost works fine. Just can't get to it. It is the difficulty (near impossibility) of the transition which screws TvP up.

Can't play atm but when I get back into the game, I'm gonna try and think outside the box and come up with different ways of playing.

I feel that getting tech lab starport and air upgrades started much earlier in the game could be a good way to go. Obviously this would weaken standard bio play so incorporating some banshee harass would make it worth it.

How about:

1 rax FE
double gas straight after CC, (as if you were going mech)
fast starport and banshees meanwhile making hellions and adding rax with any spare minerals
send banshees to the back of toss base to pull army, then hellions in the front

Obviously this is dependent on scouting, and would need to be changed if you see a toss staying on 1 base. Would also be weak to 2 base all ins but should be managable if you have mass repaired bunkers and bring banshees back to defend.

After the initial harass is done, continue as in a normal game, getting bio upgrades etc, but meanwhile have double armoury researching air upgrades. Once you start 3/3, throw down 2 or 3 more tech lab starports.

It's basically just standard MMMGV play, but with a harassment opening and much earlier investment into air upgrades. Can continue to use banshees for map control and harassment through the midgame, until you see blink research finish.

Complete theorycrafting atm obviously but I'm confident that it could work, maybe with tweaking. Maybe not at pro level, but masters and below. In the end-game composition, the ghosts are still key for EMPing HT, sentries (guardin sheild vs BCs) and mommaship, however you have no bio kiting to take up your APM so this should be pretty easy.

e: does PDD works against interceptor lasers?
 
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I don't think BC,Raven,Ghost works very well. Feedback just destroys that too easily.
It's the reason why Sky Terran TvP doesn't incorporate BCs unless there is a high Phoenix count.

I think Ghost/Viking works very well by sniping the observer repeatedly but getting there isn't easy.

Same with TvZ and getting to Raven/BC. If you look at the other races they can go up to tier 3 so easily -_-

PDD doesn't work against carriers i don't think.
 
storm destroys all bio. feedback destroys sky terran. either way you NEED to land those EMPs. It's no harder when you're going sky terran than it is when you're going bio.

Also I'd argue feedback counters sky terran less hard than storm counters bio. At least the BCs will still have most of their health left. And ravens should be at the back, safe from feedbacks, since they are mainly there for PDD vs stalkers.
 
Blink Stalkers with Feedbacks and Storm counter Sky Terran too hard.

It's always been a playstyle that's strength is catching your opponent offguard but having cloaked maphacks everywhere makes it quite easy to scout.

All of the guides that I've ever seen on Sky Terran TvP focus on Viking/Banshee/Raven. Banshees die in 2 Storms if they sit in them all the way through so I guess it's better than marines that die instantly.

I'd probably argue that 2/3 base timings from Toss are just really strong if you went for Sky Terran straight away because 3 base just doesn't give enough gas T_T
 
It's by no means a perfect "invincible" composition, but I don't think it should just be written off.

Take that game of MVP vs Squirtle (i hope i'm remembering the right players) where MVP had 24battle cruisers. He lost because he got vortexed. But all he had to do was have his BCs more spread, or EMP the mothership and I think he could have won or at least stayed roughly even. This despite squirtle having void rays, high templar and archons which are really protoss' best answer to sky terran.

Blink stalkers are only good if there are no PDDs (and even then 3/3 BCs still win, aside from the fact that stalkers can be instantly reinforced). The key if you see the toss massing up stalkers is obviously to make sure you engage with some PDDs around and really focus on keeping your ravens out of range of the HTs until the PDDs are up.

You're right though this composition isnt really achieveable on 3 bases. It's SUPER late game, as opposed to just late game. I.e it's after the late game period where toss is at an advantage. So it's hard to get to but imho should be the standard transition in the matchup rather than just sitting on MMMGV no matter how long the game lasts.
 
SheepBeast said:
It's by no means a perfect "invincible" composition, but I don't think it should just be written off.

Take that game of MVP vs Squirtle (i hope i'm remembering the right players) where MVP had 24battle cruisers. He lost because he got vortexed. But all he had to do was have his BCs more spread, or EMP the mothership and I think he could have won or at least stayed roughly even. This despite squirtle having void rays, high templar and archons which are really protoss' best answer to sky terran.

Blink stalkers are only good if there are no PDDs (and even then 3/3 BCs still win, aside from the fact that stalkers can be instantly reinforced). The key if you see the toss massing up stalkers is obviously to make sure you engage with some PDDs around and really focus on keeping your ravens out of range of the HTs until the PDDs are up.

You're right though this composition isnt really achieveable on 3 bases. It's SUPER late game, as opposed to just late game. I.e it's after the late game period where toss is at an advantage. So it's hard to get to but imho should be the standard transition in the matchup rather than just sitting on MMMGV no matter how long the game lasts.
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It's rare I reach the lategame these days. Protoss A-moving seems to just kill me before that. Annoys me that I have to have perfect positioning, micro and macro to beat the A-move. -_-
 
Hi guys, I'm low a low bronze Terran player. I'm fairly new to the game, say 90-100 wins. Okay that sounds like quite a lot..

I'm having some troubles against TvT and some TvP, any tips and tricks?
 
spenncerr said:
Easy as that?
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No it's not.

TvT army compositions = Marine+Tank+Medivac, Mech+Vikings, Marine+Marauder+Medivac (Only against Mech)

TvP compositions = Marine+Marauder+Medivac with Vikings for Collosi and Ghosts for HTs. Transition lategame into more Ghosts and don't go over 15/16vikings.
 
Kamwah said:
No it's not.

TvT army compositions = Marine+Tank+Medivac, Mech+Vikings, Marine+Marauder+Medivac (Only against Mech)

TvP compositions = Marine+Marauder+Medivac with Vikings for Collosi and Ghosts for HTs. Transition lategame into more Ghosts and don't go over 15/16vikings.
Click to expand...

This is mostly what I've been trying to do. I generally get swamped by Colossi in TvP though, even using this composition.

TvT though, against Marine, Marauder, Medivacs and Tanks I just get raped.
 
spenncerr said:
This is mostly what I've been trying to do. I generally get swamped by Colossi in TvP though, even using this composition.

TvT though, against Marine, Marauder, Medivacs and Tanks I just get raped.
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Being in Bronze it's needless to say you don't need builds but it's not a bad idea to find one and stick with it for its intended matchup. Also make sure you scout and know what you see tells you about your opponent.

In TvP as soon as you see collisi then start Viking production with a general rule of having 4 per Collosi but don't go above 14/15. Unfortunately Toss is the race that requires less skill to play at a higher level due to AoE output and very simple mechanics.

In TvT it's a lot about multitasking. At your level id just go for 1base play then expand when you feel safe enough. Tank positioning is everything.
 
Ideally you want to be just above the point where two viking volleys will take down a collosus, then you can juke around and take some out if you're lucky, before you even engage.
 
From bronze I just concentrated on pumping out SCV's all the time.

Usually T v T in bronze is all about tanks/marine. Also drops are extremely good in bronze as very few players expect drops in bronze.

This coming from a average silver player!! haha - so feel free to ignore me!
 
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