Oxide Developer: “NVIDIA Was Putting Pressure On Us To Disable Certain Settings In The Benchmark”

bloodkil · 30 Aug 2015 at 16:44

Rroff said:
Yeah I can't imagine Ark being a good judge of anything DX12 wise :S

Of course, it was just an example, and it being a GameWorks title kinda makes me feel iffy about it.

Rroff · 30 Aug 2015 at 16:45

bloodkil said:
Well it's hard to say what exactly is causing Nvidia's relatively low DX12 performance, whether it be an architectural flaw with Maxwell or a driver problem.

Where is it showing relatively low DX12 performance?

The feature tests I've seen are swings and roundabouts and all the DX12 benchmarks I've seen so far put the top end cards from AMD and nVidia neck and neck give or take a meaningless 1-2fps.

bloodkil · 30 Aug 2015 at 16:52

Rroff said:
Where is it showing relatively low DX12 performance?

The feature tests I've seen are swings and roundabouts and all the DX12 benchmarks I've seen so far put the top end cards from AMD and nVidia neck and neck give or take a meaningless 1-2fps.

Sorry, my choice of wording was bad. I meant low gains from DX12. (It's more than likely that as Oxide said, Nvidia didn't use Async because of Nvidia's poor Async Compute performance.) As I said before, it wouldn't be wise to decide the performance from one game.

mmj_uk · 30 Aug 2015 at 16:53

No evidence of course... and people say AMD aren't good at marketing, they've milked this title pretty heavily.

Rroff · 30 Aug 2015 at 17:02

bloodkil said:
Sorry, my choice of wording was bad. I meant low gains from DX12. (It's more than likely that as Oxide said, Nvidia didn't use Async because of Nvidia's poor Async Compute performance.) As I said before, it wouldn't be wise to decide the performance from one game.

Its a fallacy to compare their DX12 performance to their DX11 performance - the DX12 performance is about what would be expected their DX11 performance is the product of a lot of optimisation both in the way Maxwell was worked for the 28nm process and nVidia hooking and modifying some degree of DX11 functionality to make it more DX12 "like" (in a very loose sense) before it gets to the drivers (whereas for the most part AMD optimisations are within the drivers and largely just take unmodified DX11 as their input).

kylew_is_back · 30 Aug 2015 at 17:03

Nvidia controls 80% of the market they can do anything they want.

bloodkil · 30 Aug 2015 at 17:23

kylew_is_back said:
Nvidia controls 80% of the market they can do anything they want.

Just because they "control 80%" does not make them the best choice, nor does it mean that can "do anything they want".

JediFragger · 30 Aug 2015 at 17:26

bloodkil said:
Just because they "control 80%" does not make them the best choice, nor does it mean that can "do anything they want".

Ok, we'll send them the memo and slap their wrists next time

bloodkil · 30 Aug 2015 at 17:29

JediFragger said:
Ok, we'll send them the memo and slap their wrists next time

When it gets to the point where you're having to release a petty PR statement in an attempt to disprove a benchmark because you don't like the results, it speaks volumes.

JediFragger · 30 Aug 2015 at 17:36

bloodkil said:
When it gets to the point where you're having to release a petty PR statement in an attempt to disprove a benchmark because you don't like the results, it speaks volumes.

nVidia always have and always will be ultra aggressive when it comes to competition. It probably comes from the very top down, so until Jen-Hsun Huang steps down it's how it will be.

Like them or loathe them, nVidia know a thing or two about this business...

bloodkil · 30 Aug 2015 at 17:39

JediFragger said:
nVidia always have and always will be ultra aggressive when it comes to competition. It probably comes from the very top down, so until Jen-Hsun Huang steps down it's how it will be.

Like them or loathe them, nVidia know a thing or two about this business...

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, they make some fantastic cards, but I hate the way they do business.

shankly1985 · 30 Aug 2015 at 17:42

And this is why I refuse to ever buy Nvidia hardware! There approach to PC gaming is shocking.

JediFragger · 30 Aug 2015 at 18:21

bloodkil said:
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, they make some fantastic cards, but I hate the way they do business.

For me personally then ATi/AMD have always made the better hardware, they just haven't ever been able to square the circle with top-drawer driver/software support

For me personally nVidia's software support is light-years ahead of AMD's

layte · 30 Aug 2015 at 18:22

I wonder how many times AMD have asked developers to reduce or disable Tessellation.

P.B · 30 Aug 2015 at 18:23

JediFragger said:
For me personally then ATi/AMD have always made the better hardware, they just haven't ever been able to square the circle with top-drawer driver/software support

For me personally nVidia's software support is light-years ahead of AMD's

This is very true

amd should hire all of nvidias drivers team

muziqaz · 30 Aug 2015 at 18:26

JediFragger said:
For me personally then ATi/AMD have always made the better hardware, they just haven't ever been able to square the circle with top-drawer driver/software support

For me personally nVidia's software support is light-years ahead of AMD's

you mean light years ahead like win 10 right now?
Or linux mess, or folding at home disaster with latest projects

or above mentioned async shaders being exposed by software while they are actually not available or broken.
yeah, light years

muziqaz · 30 Aug 2015 at 18:27

P.B said:
This is very true amd should hire all of nvidias drivers team

oh please no, no no. I love my fury x performance and stability under win 10 and folding@home. let nvidia keep their driver team, PLEASE.

shankly1985 · 30 Aug 2015 at 18:28

layte said:
I wonder how many times AMD have asked developers to reduce or disable Tessellation.

Zero, they just tuck matters into there own hands and let there user base reduce it driver side..

Boomstick777 · 30 Aug 2015 at 18:28

bloodkil said:
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, they make some fantastic cards, but I hate the way they do business.

100% Agreed, but the flip side is AMD poor at execution, launches and timing etc means that there no better. I.e failing in execution is still letting customers down, although in a different way to Nvidia's brutal unethical? Business practices. Great products but failing on the execution and also pricing right now.

Sometimes it reads like AMD want us to feel sorry for them because Nvidia plays dirty, and we should buy an inferior product at a high price to support them. AMD need to answer with better hardware / support, (Referring to older AMD articles) not just speaking out about unfairness.

So neither AMD or Nvidia are ideal. Until there is a third player (Probably never) just buy whoever has best hardware, unfortunately for AMD it's Nvidia atm.

I've got no problem moving to AMD when they have the performance edge, or at least performance VS price edge. They don't have either atm imho.

muziqaz · 30 Aug 2015 at 18:29

layte said:
I wonder how many times AMD have asked developers to reduce or disable Tessellation.

do they need to ask? If dev is not paid and uses decent amount of tesselation, AMD and nvidia have similar performance. Only when devs are paid to over use tesselation, then we see difference between amd and nvidia cards.