Paris attacks.

[ultralaser]

Meh

It's depressing seeing a community like OCUK so at odds after such an awful event. In my own view these events need us all (whether it's a computer forum or not) to come together and pay our respects and use both our heads and hearts when considering the response we'd like to see from the UK (and EU).

For me, my first step to "understanding" (if you ever can) an event like this is to an think why they did this. We all know ISIS are both cowards and brutal, but why shoot down an airliner (assuming they did) and why attack random people in Paris? My personal view is that they are getting hit hard by a group of countries (Russia, France and the US primarily) and wanted to send a strong message that "mess with us in the Middle East and there will be consequences in your own countries". For me, personally, that's a positive message, it means that the actions we are taking are being effective and forcing ISIS to change their methodology. Paraphrasing a British classic "They don't like it up'em"

When it comes to immigration and the refugee crisis, Channel 4 news just confirmed that two of the attackers came to France during this refugee crisis. And whilst I totally accept that many of us believe that compassion and welcoming refugees into the UK is a positive force in challenging extremism, we must also accept that the primary responsibility of the governments of EU is the safety of its citizens. To that end it seems we have to reconsider our (and the EU's) current policy with respect to the Syrian refugee crisis. That said we have to, we must not fall into the trap of isolating Muslims in the UK (or wider EU), the further we isolate / deride them the more fuel we put of the fire of extremism.

Just my view of course.

 

[Judgeneo]

Pretty sure this been tried in a variety of places by a variety of people/countries throughout history. It never ends well.

Worse than our approach in Iraq and Libya?

 

[Robbo]

With regards to the refugee situation: I simply think it's too risky, as well as being unsustainable in large numbers.

It's very difficult to verify exactly who these people are, and even if you can, there's still a risk they're radicalised.

I sympathise with all the genuine cases, but it's not something we can realistically do much about.

 

[Jokester]

Pretty sure this been tried in a variety of places by a variety of people/countries throughout history. It never ends well.

Germany and Japan turned out ok.

 

[balky12]

You still need someone on the ground really - there is a limit to what they can do technology and feasibility wise - drones are an excellent tool when used with the right information.

We would have loads of special service men on the ground helping coordinate the strikes and helping gathering intel.

A long way from the required number of boots on the ground to make any truly meaningful progress.

Imo thats sometimes better. Almost using their own terrorist tactics against them (ISIS). Special servicemen in the shadows, taking out high profile targets and calling in drones which are scary pieces of equipment when you think about it. They don't have a physical target (massive army) to focus on. But I accept it has its limitations.

 

[lude1962]

Kenya attack: 147 dead in Garissa University assault

Well, it was back in April, when the article was posted.

but didn't have the coverage of Paris attack, obviously being in a third world country the first world weren't that interested

 

[Diddums]

Kenya attack: 147 dead in Garissa University assault

but didn't have the coverage of Paris attack, obviously being in a third world country the first world weren't that interested

Oh come off it. That's hardly relevant right now regardless of whether it is true or not.

 

[Mynight]

For me, personally, that's a positive message, it means that the actions we are taking are being effective and forcing ISIS to change their methodology. Paraphrasing a British classic "They don't like it up'em"

Sorry to cherry pick but how has the methodology changed? It seems to be a standard terrorist attack.

 

[Rroff]

Kenya attack: 147 dead in Garissa University assault

but didn't have the coverage of Paris attack, obviously being in a third world country the first world weren't that interested

Neither did the Westgate mall attacks but conversely they'd have had a lot of coverage in countries more local and vice versa I doubt the Paris attacks have as much coverage in those parts as they do here.

 

[koolpc]

Makes you wonder how many planned attacks they have. Its a gigantic headache of which i see no end. These terrorists are everywhere.

 

[Van Diemen]

Of course Isis is about religion, Isis are Islamic, Isis members are all Muslims, are you implying they have nothing to do with the religion that they base their entire lives around, whose primary goal is an Islamic State, based entirely upon Islam?

Not really, they've just Islam as a vehicle.

ISIS are not acting out a misinterpretation, its an outright manipulation

 

[qqg3]

This is an interesting read from 2005:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/the-future-of-terrorism-what-al-qaida-really-wants-a-369448.html

The Sixth Phase - Hussein believes that from 2016 onwards there will a period of "total confrontation." As soon as the caliphate has been declared the "Islamic army" it will instigate the "fight between the believers and the non-believers" which has so often been predicted by Osama bin Laden.

 

[balky12]

Makes you wonder how many planned attacks they have. Its a gigantic headache of which i see no end. These terrorists are everywhere.

Undoubtedly loads. I bet there are far more plans that get foiled compared to materialising. Credit to our intelligence forces.

I bet the figures would make quite a scary read.

 

[ultralaser]

Sorry to cherry pick but how has the methodology changed? It seems to be a standard terrorist attack.

No problem Mynight it's just my view. The methodology of this attack has only been seen in the Mumbai attacks. There's no clear targeting (I.e. they didn't target a particular group) and they used automatic weapons and close quarters techniques to inflict maximum damage. ISIS so far have been [A] regional (focused on gaining ground in either Syria or Iraq) as yet hadn't demonstrated a "multiple cells controlled commonly controlled" type hierarchy.

With the Tunisia attack for example it was more lone wolf, it didn't shout "planned". This attack resembles more of an AQ style attack, a couple of cells, well trained, indiscriminate targeting.

I'm no expert so just my view and I might be misunderstanding things

 

[Vulcan]

Not really, they've just Islam as a vehicle.

ISIS are not acting out a misinterpretation, its an outright manipulation

What's 8:60 & 47:4 about then?

 

[bitslice]

So much confusion right there that I'm going to call it quits and just have some tea.

If you didn't deliberately half quote a post then you wouldn't be "confused"

 

[Mynight]

No problem Mynight it's just my view. The methodology of this attack has only been seen in the Mumbai attacks. There's no clear targeting (I.e. they didn't target a particular group) and they used automatic weapons and close quarters techniques to inflict maximum damage. ISIS so far have been [A] regional (focused on gaining ground in either Syria or Iraq) as yet hadn't demonstrated a "multiple cells controlled commonly controlled" type hierarchy.

With the Tunisia attack for example it was more lone wolf, it didn't shout "planned". This attack resembles more of an AQ style attack, a couple of cells, well trained, indiscriminate targeting.

I'm no expert so just my view and I might be misunderstanding things

Fair enough. I cant argue with that .

 

[CREATIVE!11]

All over the news that one of the attackers was registered as a refugee last month.

And so it begins...

Yep...

I was slated in the immigration thread for saying this will backfire... 70% of them were men. What did anyone expect? honestly?

Seriously and all I got was **** from people.

Well well.....

 

[Danthus]

Have I just seen an attack on Jeremy Corbyn in this thread!

 

[Rroff]

No problem Mynight it's just my view. The methodology of this attack has only been seen in the Mumbai attacks. There's no clear targeting (I.e. they didn't target a particular group) and they used automatic weapons and close quarters techniques to inflict maximum damage. ISIS so far have been [A] regional (focused on gaining ground in either Syria or Iraq) as yet hadn't demonstrated a "multiple cells controlled commonly controlled" type hierarchy.

With the Tunisia attack for example it was more lone wolf, it didn't shout "planned". This attack resembles more of an AQ style attack, a couple of cells, well trained, indiscriminate targeting.

I'm no expert so just my view and I might be misunderstanding things

Seems like sound thinking to me - hence why I'd be concerned if the Egyptian plane was also a terror event with a direct link (different cell, same overarching plan) as if so we are only seeing the beginning of what they want to accomplish.