Paying a garage to fix a problem and having the problem come back

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££££££££££££

Just not worth it if, if, if you have a solid B18.
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He doesn't.

Op its time to bin this thing or at the very least this engine. Continue trying to get a compromise with the builder but it should be on a financial basis and NOT about rebuilding this one. If it comes to it you'll get a fair sum back stripping an integra...enough to make buying another straight one more worthwhile than dropping another engine into this I'd bet.

Please do not use the same core engine again, you are wasting your money and the guy doing the work, whilst possibly not doing it intentionally is leading you down the garden path. His first thought will always be about how to fix the existing unit as its what he does at the end of the day
 
You guys are right saying carry on, it's at that point where I've spent so much on other parts that I may as well carry on, or I'll have to start all over OR stump up more money for a sorted car, whatever that will be. If I had the space I could buy a Civic/Teg and fit the bits to it but I don't so I'm limited as to what I can achieve.

I'm not looking to blame the guy 100%, I should have checked the oil again after the first session but it was still burning oil, so I'd hope at the very least for a 50/50 split towards fixing/replacing the engine.

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2493818

That's an example of shot rings, but obviously much worse, I could just have had a single ring fail, again.
 
Please do not keep the same engine, it's madness! It clearly has an issue, whether he has caused it or its just a one off, crap unit it clearly has issues that you are not going to resolve. Stop wasting money on it
 
Vita said:
£10k investment on a Teg? Not worth it, no matter what a great drivers car it is, especially if it's more then likely to throw up problems.
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You don't seem to understand this, he already has that much invested in it and now it has a blown engine. As it stands, it's only worth the sum of the remaining parts, nowhere near what it owes him. It was foolish to put 4k into an engine rebuild but that's water under the bridge now isn't it.
 
Clarkey said:
You don't seem to understand this, he already has that much invested in it and now it has a blown engine. As it stands, it's only worth the sum of the remaining parts, nowhere near what it owes him. It was foolish to put 4k into an engine rebuild but that's water under the bridge now isn't it.
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Say it causes him a problem again, isn't it foolish then? I rather not take the risk personally. Though he could get lucky and be problem free if he transplants a new engine in.
 
I'd want assurances that 2k actually meant 2k, not just that that's the guestimate figure and the true bill climbs upwards.

If you are going to go down the route of replacing the engine and fighting the guy for financial compensation, get a full all in quote for the work on an engine that exists before agreeing figures.

You don't want him to go 50/50 on a guestimate of £1500 for it to then end up costing you £4k.

I find it funny he's trying to blame you though. 2 15 minute sessions to kill a rebuilt engine with a baffled sump is outrageous. If they were that fragile every DC2 road or track test when they were launched would have ended half way through with knackered engines. There was clearly something wrong with it, but proving what, and proving its the rebuilders fault is going to be hard work.
 
What sort of guarantees were provided with the rebuild? A good engine builder should warrant their work, provide security for any part failures assuming you have followed their prescribed procedure for running in the car after the rebuild. When the engines we rebuilt into the MX5 race cars for example, there was a very specific process to bed them in. Several rev limits, oil changes and a few other running things but once followed all failures of components were covered with a complete rebuild guarantee. I don't know how much money you have put into this car, but I would want to see the engine builder stand by their work if they are a quality outfit and put it right at their expenses if you can prove no miss use. I do not categorise a track day as miss use either, assuming again you followed any prescribed procedures. I would be looking for less mitigation of blame from the builder and more balls standing by their work. Seems you have had a bad rebuild to me that has gone wrong. If the engine is difficult to rebuild that is fine, but the engine builder either does a job with confidence or doesn't do the job. If they do it I expect it to be within the confines of a high quality warranty for their work.

I know nothing about the garage, the parts, the costs of the regime around the rebuild, but it does seems to me, after a scan read, that an engine has been badly built, fiddled with badly and has gone pop. If it were me, I would seek recourse in whatever form was needed.
 
god damn

4k engine rebuild ****up ??
I remember when i got my oil level to almost no one on bayonet.
But Seen that on my Oil pressure gauge right away---> Oil pressure dropping off standard on corners.

But that was 4k miles ago and does not seem to do any harm since it was around city not trashgng around track. Thats when is tarted checking oil level every time i take it out :P


I vote for b20 vtec if you can afford it :) Top end is ok so you just nee bottom end from CRV some work done to it and remap. Should last longet than 12k :(
 
Lord_ZED said:
4k engine rebuild ****up ??
I remember when i got my oil level to almost no one on bayonet.
But Seen that on my Oil pressure gauge right away---> Oil pressure dropping off standard on corners.

But that was 4k miles ago and does not seem to do any harm since it was around city not trashgng around track. Thats when is tarted checking oil level every time i take it out :P


I vote for b20 vtec if you can afford it :) Top end is ok so you just nee bottom end from CRV some work done to it and remap. Should last longet than 12k :(
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A B20 is a stupid idea, those things are more unreliable than the DVLA!!!!!

Stick with it, but get a new engine, something was messed up with yours causing the need for a rebuild and there's a root cause or causes that will not likely ever be found out or understood.
 
Wow, there is some wallet/heartache here, sorry that anyone has to go through this. If it was me, I'd scrap the bottom end of the engine and start with a known good second hand block/crank and get everything cleaned, balanced, bores honed & fit new rings etc. You'll save £££ if you drop the pistons, crank & block into an engineering shop for the work, rather than getting it done through a garage. I've rebuilt a few engines in the past (no Honda unfortunately) and it's the approach I've always taken. It should also work out the same/cheaper than sourcing a replacement engine and you'll know that the bottom end is as fresh as it can be.
 
If you end up going for a dfferent garage then it's well worth giving WIll @ RDT a call for your engine and setup needs, Nez swears by him when it comes to engines, the guy's a wizard :)
 
Housey said:
What sort of guarantees were provided with the rebuild? A good engine builder should warrant their work, provide security for any part failures assuming you have followed their prescribed procedure for running in the car after the rebuild. When the engines we rebuilt into the MX5 race cars for example, there was a very specific process to bed them in. Several rev limits, oil changes and a few other running things but once followed all failures of components were covered with a complete rebuild guarantee. I don't know how much money you have put into this car, but I would want to see the engine builder stand by their work if they are a quality outfit and put it right at their expenses if you can prove no miss use. I do not categorise a track day as miss use either, assuming again you followed any prescribed procedures. I would be looking for less mitigation of blame from the builder and more balls standing by their work. Seems you have had a bad rebuild to me that has gone wrong. If the engine is difficult to rebuild that is fine, but the engine builder either does a job with confidence or doesn't do the job. If they do it I expect it to be within the confines of a high quality warranty for their work.

I know nothing about the garage, the parts, the costs of the regime around the rebuild, but it does seems to me, after a scan read, that an engine has been badly built, fiddled with badly and has gone pop. If it were me, I would seek recourse in whatever form was needed.
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The prescribed bedding in procedure was
- 500 miles stay below 5k (keep the revs roaming across the band)
- 1500 miles and change to fully synthetic
- 3000 miles take it in for valve clearance check/adjustment

2800 went back for leaking sump and baffle, valve check was done then.
3100 went back for heavy smoking, ring failed on #3

Oil+Filter every 6k was followed, I have the receipts for those parts and the testimony of friends who did it with me. No other instruction was given, the obvious would stand out, give it a 20min warm up at steady speed before pressing on, don’t labour, especially when cold and maintain the oil level.

I have contacted the garage yesterday hoping to clarify exactly what happened and how to proceed, I’m still waiting on his reply. Thanks for your post, it’s a good way to view the situation.
 
Muffin` said:
The prescribed bedding in procedure was
- 500 miles stay below 5k (keep the revs roaming across the band)
- 1500 miles and change to fully synthetic
- 3000 miles take it in for valve clearance check/adjustment

2800 went back for leaking sump and baffle, valve check was done then.
3100 went back for heavy smoking, ring failed on #3

Oil+Filter every 6k was followed, I have the receipts for those parts and the testimony of friends who did it with me. No other instruction was given, the obvious would stand out, give it a 20min warm up at steady speed before pressing on, don’t labour, especially when cold and maintain the oil level.

I have contacted the garage yesterday hoping to clarify exactly what happened and how to proceed, I’m still waiting on his reply. Thanks for your post, it’s a good way to view the situation.
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On the basis that you followed their prescribed demands to the book and to your best ability can show this, I would expect them to put it right at their cost. There is little point laying out demands on you after the work is done that are then questioned when a problem arises as it is easy to suggest you didn't follow them so it's your fault.

A good builder would take you at your word that you did and unless they can prove otherwise and show you didn't (if that is the case then pay up) they should repair the engine at their cost. It seems to me you have been fairly rationale about it on here, so I would expect that to reflect in your dealings with them. I hear all the arguments about how hard it is to tune, but if an engine builder takes on the job in the first place they should do so expecting to deliver a quality product that they will stand by, rain or shine. I'd ensure I got satisfaction even if that was a mutual compromise. If they did another engine and it went the same way or if I could find common examples of this happening with other owners cars I would seek recompense and go elsewhere.
 
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