PCSO'S why even bother.

GAC · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:08

taken from the manchester eveing news

Police ask 'would you stop to help?' after 'loads of people' walk past two cops being attacked in Manchester city centre

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ester-news/police-ask-would-you-stop-16499309

one minor wrinkle at first you think two officers have been setup and taking a kicking by the headline, actually its two pcso's that couldn't restrain A suspected bike thief.

2 of our PCSO's were assaulted this afternoon by a male they were with on Aytoun St who was suspected of trying to steal a bike.

Whilst they were waiting for officers to attend the male swung punches at them before they managed to get him down to the ground - luckily there were no serious injuries.

so ignoring the idiotic question by the inspector, what is the point of pcso's if they arnt physically able to restrain A suspected bike thief, my own experience i have seem some capable pcso's and some down right indept and dangerous ones who shouldn't be playing at being a police officer as they just wouldnt be able to do anything, our local one is a 5ft tall womble who spends all of her time drinking tea and eating biscuits when she's not driving out of the area when her shift finishes.

so why is it we pay these plastic coppers over £20k a year yet they cant do the job?! i know a few coppers are on here so anyone got any views why we dont just employ real officers for the couple of thousand extra it will probably cost ?

StriderX · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:09

Are PCSOs like the council thug wannebee police in cities?

Should just sack them all and hire more real police.

Terminal_Boy · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:12

No, because you actually see the Council ones out and about on their own.

Yaayuh! · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:12

I don't get it. The article states that they managed to restrain him, you quoted as such.

What's the issue here? That the Police wanted to know why loads of people walked past without helping?

Semple · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:12

Don't you have to be a PCSO these days in order to train to be a real copper?

StriderX · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:14

Rossi~ said:
I don't get it. The article states that they managed to restrain him, you quoted as such.

What's the issue here? That the Police wanted to know why loads of people walked past without helping?

Why should someone in the public help with the risk of litigation?

Semple · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:15

Rossi~ said:
I don't get it. The article states that they managed to restrain him, you quoted as such.

What's the issue here?

Presumably they were struggling to restrain him, and members of the public just walked on by.

It's a tricky one really, with the number of psychopaths carrying knives these days, it'll just be your rotten luck that the day you intervene is the day you end up getting stabbed.

Yaayuh! · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:16

StriderX said:
Why should someone in the public help with the risk of litigation?

Indeed, it's a good answer.

But why is the Police asking the public an issue? It's good feedback.

GAC · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:21

Rossi~ said:
I don't get it. The article states that they managed to restrain him, you quoted as such.

What's the issue here? That the Police wanted to know why loads of people walked past without helping?

the issue for me is the fact two supposed trained pcso's (which the police still keep calling officers even though they arnt) may have needed the general public to help them with A person. like i said above maybe they should hire more physically able pcso's or just hire full time officers with the pcso's wage.

PCSOs are paid members of police staff. A PCSO earns £20,115 as a trainee, rising to £22,275 with experience

for that sort of money they should be hiring more capable pcso's.

Yaayuh! · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:25

GAC said:
the issue for me is the fact two supposed trained pcso's (which the police still keep calling officers even though they arnt) may have needed the general public to help them with A person. like i said above maybe they should hire more physically able pcso's or just hire full time officers with the pcso's wage.

Can you say without doubt that two fully trained Police officers could have restrained him quicker/better? Of course not, we have little to no information.

Regardless, this is irrelevant, he was restrained, it was difficult and the only reason this thread exists is because a typically shoddy city rag decided to make a big deal over this quote from the police:

"This is not necessarily a criticism as I understand why people are reluctant but out of interest would you have stopped to assist?"

Which is not an unreasonable question to ask, feedback could be helpful.

Monkeynut · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:26

Surely this shows that all police need to meet a higher standard of fitness to be able to restrain suspects more easily?

BYTEr · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:28

GAC said:
for that sort of money they should be hiring more capable pcso's.

You make it sound like £22,275 with experience is a lot of money.

Freddie1980 · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:34

GAC said:
the issue for me is the fact two supposed trained pcso's (which the police still keep calling officers even though they arnt) may have needed the general public to help them with A person. like i said above maybe they should hire more physically able pcso's or just hire full time officers with the pcso's wage.

for that sort of money they should be hiring more capable pcso's.

22k to deal with drunks, druggies and weridos, no thanks.

Steampunk · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:36

You'd probably get arrested by the Police when the criminal asks to press assault charges.

Where does the line get drawn? Is someone allowed to set their dog on the suspect? Can you pick up a cop's dropped baton, taser, or pepper spray and use them on the suspect? Can you punch the suspect in the fact to subdue them like the police have been known to do? Will the police think a third party entering the fight is helping them or hindering them? Maybe you'll be mistaken for the suspect's friend and get attacked by the police? What happens if you get seriously hurt by the suspect or police during your intervention? You're not going to get pensioned out of the force due to injury.

People stay clear because they are neither trained nor equipped to help PCSOs in that manner, and are just as likely to get themselves arrested and prosecuted for interfering as not. They could be seriously hurt and leave themselves without a way to support themselves or their families. It's one thing to jump in when there are no police around to defend yourself or others, but when there's officers on site doing their jobs, most people are just going to stay clear and let them get on with it, rather than get involved and make a situation worse for themselves and others.

Nitefly · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:37

GAC said:
the issue for me is the fact two supposed trained pcso's (which the police still keep calling officers even though they arnt) may have needed the general public to help them with A person. like i said above maybe they should hire more physically able pcso's or just hire full time officers with the pcso's wage.

for that sort of money they should be hiring more capable pcso's.

£22k for that!!! That is dire monies

Roar87 · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:38

It's because they don't give a **** how physically capable Police are these days, it's not a PCSO thing.

GAC · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:40

Rossi~ said:
Can you say without doubt that two fully trained Police officers could have restrained him quicker/better? Of course not, we have little to no information.

Regardless, this is irrelevant, he was restrained, it was difficult and the only reason this thread exists is because a typically shoddy city rag decided to make a big deal over this quote from the police:

yes he was restrained but the way the inspector made it out and with the help of the man evening news you'd think they where getting a kicking from half a dozen people.

and honestly from my experience working with pcso's yes id expected two fully trained officers to do a better job, as id hope they would be taking their physical fitness a lot more serious than some of the manlets playing at being a copper.

Scort · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:46

Can't help but think that no one jumped in to help, as they probably would have been worried about being arrested themselves, or sued but the poor criminal 'victim'.

ianh · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:49

My concern would be that, being "untrained" in restraint, should I seriously hurt the suspect (accidentally break an arm for example) would I be liable to be sued or even charged with an offence myself, even if the Officer requested my help? As the answer would be a resounding YES to both then I'm sorry but I would find myself holding back regardless of how much I would want to help.

By the looks of most of the replies on here that train of thought seems common.

Semple · 28 Jun 2019 at 09:53

Steampunk said:
You'd probably get arrested by the Police when the criminal asks to press assault charges.

Where does the line get drawn? Is someone allowed to set their dog on the suspect? Can you pick up a cop's dropped baton, taser, or pepper spray and use them on the suspect? Can you punch the suspect in the fact to subdue them like the police have been known to do? Will the police think a third party entering the fight is helping them or hindering them? Maybe you'll be mistaken for the suspect's friend and get attacked by the police? What happens if you get seriously hurt by the suspect or police during your intervention? You're not going to get pensioned out of the force due to injury.

People stay clear because they are neither trained nor equipped to help PCSOs in that manner, and are just as likely to get themselves arrested and prosecuted for interfering as not. They could be seriously hurt and leave themselves without a way to support themselves or their families. It's one thing to jump in when there are no police around to defend yourself or others, but when there's officers on site doing their jobs, most people are just going to stay clear and let them get on with it, rather than get involved and make a situation worse for themselves and others.

Some very good points here.

Might be one for someone to write back to the journalist and say, what exactly are you allowed to do to assist a member of the policing force without any repercussions to yourself. The obvious one really would be to grab the pepper spray and spray it into the suspects eyes. But i was under the impression it was actually illegal for a member of public to be in possession of that grade of pepper spray - so would you then be in trouble.