Soldato
U wot m8
PCSO'S why even bother.
- Thread starter GAC
- Start date
If only that were true.
I know some people with experience on the inside, and one of the reasons they left was disillusionment.
They said that there is a real "us vs them" mentality in the police attitude towards the public.
Restraining people successfully and for any length of time takes a serious toll on your muscles, you get gassed really quickly - adrenaline is a hell of a thing.
In a previous job, yeah I'd have jumped in to assist, now though - unless they were really in trouble I don't think I would. It's tough to say, I've done my time rolling on the ground with criminals - fair play to those still doing it.
In a previous job, yeah I'd have jumped in to assist, now though - unless they were really in trouble I don't think I would. It's tough to say, I've done my time rolling on the ground with criminals - fair play to those still doing it.
Soldato
Had to help the police restrain a bloke they found mooching around my Nan's garden (Fnarr fnarr, Yakk yakk). They were there within five minutes of the call, but God knows why they only sent a single crewed officer. Seeing as there was only one way in and way out of the garden, his fate was sealed but he got seriously violent, proper cornered animal stuff. I had to go and grab his legs as he was rolling around on the floor with the officer. Took a good ten minutes for another car to turn up and for him to finally get cuffed. Was ******* knackered afterwards, and the day after was aching and covered in bruises.
Soldato
I wonder how much that attitude has changed over time. My dad grew up in the 50's with a Beat Bobby who he spoke to whenever he saw him and, according to him, was firm but fair and would happily give you a clip around the ear and it seemed the vast majority of people respected the Police. I grew up in the 80's and never saw a Beat Bobby or any Police Officer walking around my council estate but saw many driving around so I never spoke to one until I got caught being silly as drunk a 17yo and I'd say that the level of respect for the Police was lower than in my Dad's days.
Now I'm not saying in any way that the sole cause of this modern "lack of respect" is due to a lack of contact* but I do wonder if that lack of contact as children (and a lack of respect shown by parents to the Police) is a something which should be increased, with Kids being able to see and chat to Police from Primary school age onwards (say once a month visit to a school by 3-4 Officers for a hour or so chat) but I've no idea if there is the "spare" numbers of Officers to carry out that sort of job.
* The biggest cause for me would be that Police PR has been awful at times. For every amazing story about the work they do there's 10 about lazy officers who don't investigate crimes, SJW upper leadership who care more about words on Twitter than burglaries and raging knife crime, drivers targeted yet again, officers who can't pass physical tests etc. The public's "perception" of the Police has generally taken a down-turn over the past few decades and it doesn't seem, to me at least, to be the "prideful" career for modern kids it used to be when my dad was a boy when kids would be "cops and robbers" etc.
Man of Honour
No because they aren't constables.
I think much of it comes from the idea that you should be able to extract revenge on someone, rather than just defend yourself. Some people seem to want to be able to beat the crap out of someone, and continue to do so after it’s obvious they are no longer a threat. Similar to the stand your ground laws in the US where you can quite happily shoot and kill someone if you get into a scuffle...
In a realistic self defence situation you are protected - someone breaks into your house and threatens violence when discovered, you’re not going to be arrested for hitting them a few times to get them to leave. Similarly your situation.
Unfortunately some people seem to want to do a Tony Martin and shoot them in the back when they’re running away, and fail to see the difference...
Same issue with first aid. “Good Samaritan” laws protect people in most western countries (including the UK), but there is still a misunderstanding about helping.
Simple solution in the situation in the OP - five words:
“Do you need a hand?” Before you jump in and grab the baton/spray and gas the person being apprehended. PCSO says yes, you give them a hand and perhaps follow their recommendations.
Would I do so? Probably not as they should be considered trained members of the police service (even if they aren’t actually police). If they were asking for help, then perhaps I would.
As for what PCSOs do. They usually do what their name implies - community support. They do the touchy feely bits the “local Bobby” used to do. Talk to community members, troublemakers etc and show a presence on the street. That and the jobs police aren’t completely needed for (such as standing guard on the house with a dead body).
Man of Honour
If anything that example does need a constable to enforce the cordon. We don't use PCSOs for scene guards due to this.
Soldato
Not sure what force you're in but PCSOs are regularly used for scene guards in my force. I guess it differs from one to another.
Man of Honour
Yeah, I'm aware of that. The issue is that PCSOs can't be obstructed in the course of their duties and without a specific cordon power outside of terrorism, that's all they have to actually enforce the integrity of a scene.
Associate
If I get seriously injured helping a police officer I lose my income and therefore my family home. If a police officer gets injured in the line of duty they get medically discharged and taken care of.
Not worth the risk to me.
Not worth the risk to me.
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Associate
The same reason medical trained professionals no longer help someone in trouble on the street as they fear getting sued if said person does not survive.
Soldato
- Joined
- 22 Feb 2014
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why the hell would I try and jump in and help ?
I don't pay enough attention to police uniform to tell the difference between a full PC and whatever these guys are, so looking at the situation as a passerby, they would appear to me as "police"
reasons why I would not help
1 - From my experience whenever police are dealing with violence and members of the public try to get involved they are told in no uncertain terms to do one.
2 - they are paid to deal with these types of people, I am not
3 - Why would I risk potentially getting a kicking (potentially even stabbing) myself for what gain ?
In the example given the crook was a bike thief right, these guys are usually tooled up with a set of bolt croppers or similar, I don't fancy being ******* round the head with a set of those thanks.
4 - why would I risk potentially getting sued/arrested, for what gain ?
I don't pay enough attention to police uniform to tell the difference between a full PC and whatever these guys are, so looking at the situation as a passerby, they would appear to me as "police"
reasons why I would not help
1 - From my experience whenever police are dealing with violence and members of the public try to get involved they are told in no uncertain terms to do one.
2 - they are paid to deal with these types of people, I am not
3 - Why would I risk potentially getting a kicking (potentially even stabbing) myself for what gain ?
In the example given the crook was a bike thief right, these guys are usually tooled up with a set of bolt croppers or similar, I don't fancy being ******* round the head with a set of those thanks.
4 - why would I risk potentially getting sued/arrested, for what gain ?
weather correct or incorrect I have the impression there would be a real danger of getting done for assault, what happens if you push the guy, he hits his head and dies? or has a heart attack.. I have the impression cops are at least in some instances looking for good stats so would not think twice about screwing you on a technicality if its an easy open and shut case.
I might help if its a comedy cop (the newer style small ones) or female... but I would really want to scare the offender off rather than try and restrain him
Soldato
Even worse, should you injure the person/s attacking a police officer, you could face a criminal prosecution yourself.
Why should you help? Because morally it is correct? Police are still human beings. It isn't their fault they have suffered cut after cut from the Government.
The person they are trying to restrain has committed some crime and through no fault of their own may need some help as a last resort.
Some consideration has to be given to the above, ie you could get injured etc, but sometimes we have to help each other out in life - that copper is only doing his job and is someones dad/mum, son/daughter etc too.
The person they are trying to restrain has committed some crime and through no fault of their own may need some help as a last resort.
Some consideration has to be given to the above, ie you could get injured etc, but sometimes we have to help each other out in life - that copper is only doing his job and is someones dad/mum, son/daughter etc too.
Man of Honour
This is also BS. Again, there are loads of protections in law to protect good Samaritan type situations.
Also, some medical professionals are duty bound to help.
Man of Honour
1. Based on a sample size of how big?
2. Most are. I'm not.
3. Because you'd like to help someone?
4. You're not going to get sued/arrested if you're a normal reasonable person, but as above.
Firstly, force is judged on how reasonable it was in the heat of the moment in the specific circumstances, not on the end result, even if that's a death. There are no targets for a prosecution outcome here, there is no incentive for either the Police or CPS to prosecute people who acted in good faith. Your fears are unfounded.
Not if your force is reasonable in the circumstances. Most people are reasonable and their actions will be proportionate.
My god, someone who actually has a bit of empathy and humility, it seems you're a rare breed here.