petrol prices
- Thread starter steveo
- Start date
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Yep, lets vote out the man that abolished the fuel tax elevator, in favour of the party that invented it.
OR, let's actually do the maths on petrol tax, I think most people will be surprised if they do, even with the extra VAT they're taking just now total tax is still down per litre from 2000 in real terms.
Although we still pay 115p for a litre of unleaded when the actual product itself costs less than 50 pence - even now, today, with oil at $122 a barrel.
There is a lot of misconception and ignorance surrounding things like this though - just human nature. Why try and understand something when you can just have a good rant about it?
But the tax certainly doesn't HELP the situation and is why prices are so high, if not why prices have risen lately.
But the tax certainly doesn't HELP the situation and is why prices are so high, if not why prices have risen lately.
tax cut?
See my post up the page. Petrol tax inc VAT was less in 2007 than in 2000 in real terms- tax cut. I don't have the numbers for present day but as a quick back-of-envelope job, VAT as a result of the price rises shouldn't be higher than the after-inflation cut since 2000.
The counterargument for this is that it should be bigger. And I agree. VAT on fuel is a problem.
The counterargument for this is that it should be bigger. And I agree. VAT on fuel is a problem.
a tax cut would be an actual cut in tax, has this happened, or are you stating that the %age decrease is a cut?
As I said, a real terms tax cut taking into account inflation (if inflation is 3% and tax goes up 2%, that's a tax cut) Cheers Fox. To expand on numbers, using the BOE inflation calculator (which gives very conservative results) and price data from petrolprices, tax rose from 58.6p per litre to 63.7p per litre from 2000 to 2007. If it had increased in line with inflation that increase would have more than doubled, to 71p. So that's a cut of 7.3 per litre in real terms.
That'll be a bit different as of today, the fuel duty went up beneath inflation again but the extra 20p at the pump means 3.5p more VAT per litre, halving that cut. VERY rough figures there obviously.
As far as it being open to debate... If inflation was 5% and you got a 1% annual pay rise, you'd not debate that you're effectively getting a pay cut I think... It seems like the only time people take issue with this concept is when they don't like the result
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That'll be a bit different as of today, the fuel duty went up beneath inflation again but the extra 20p at the pump means 3.5p more VAT per litre, halving that cut. VERY rough figures there obviously.
As far as it being open to debate... If inflation was 5% and you got a 1% annual pay rise, you'd not debate that you're effectively getting a pay cut I think... It seems like the only time people take issue with this concept is when they don't like the result
<edited to add numbers>
<and then again to add more numbers>
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Some figures:
2002 UK average fuel price 71.0p a litre of which 56p was tax.
2008 UK average fuel price today 116p a litre of which 68p is tax.
Using the RPI 56p in 2002 would be worth about 67p today so it's actually about increased in line with inflation. So whilst we've not had a 'tax cut' we've also not been shafted any more than were were already being shafted in 2002. Hurrah!
.
2002 UK average fuel price 71.0p a litre of which 56p was tax.
2008 UK average fuel price today 116p a litre of which 68p is tax.
Using the RPI 56p in 2002 would be worth about 67p today so it's actually about increased in line with inflation. So whilst we've not had a 'tax cut' we've also not been shafted any more than were were already being shafted in 2002. Hurrah!
.
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I think the clue is in the name of this subsection of forum. We rather like our relience on petrol.
I would have said because it's easier to point the finger elsewhere than to change your own behaviour. But Fox's answer is better
(I suppose I'm in some danger of appearing to be some pro-Brown 70mpg hippy here. I think he's a walking disaster and I like burning petrol, and I'd like to pay a bit less for it. I just think we should get the facts right, and go after a real goal like (for instance) no VAT on fuel duty, or (if it's legal in the EU) no VAT on fuel and a higher flat tax to compensate, so that rising prices don't see us hit twice. Rather than demanding the fuel tax cuts which we already have.
Incidentally, the run of tax cuts started the budget before the last fuel protests
So people were out protesting against the best budget for fuel tax in over a decade.
(I suppose I'm in some danger of appearing to be some pro-Brown 70mpg hippy here. I think he's a walking disaster and I like burning petrol, and I'd like to pay a bit less for it. I just think we should get the facts right, and go after a real goal like (for instance) no VAT on fuel duty, or (if it's legal in the EU) no VAT on fuel and a higher flat tax to compensate, so that rising prices don't see us hit twice. Rather than demanding the fuel tax cuts which we already have.
Incidentally, the run of tax cuts started the budget before the last fuel protests
So people were out protesting against the best budget for fuel tax in over a decade.Interesting to note that the hauliers baying for a 25p 'essential users' rebate (Are they suggesting everyone else just drives for a laugh? Ok I do, but most people dont) don't actually pay VAT anyway (Well they get it back) so they are paying 17.5% less than the rest of us..
'Cos I went to 2008 and you went to 2007 I think. Dont forget that last year oil prices dipped to $60ish so we breifly went back into the 80p a litre area.