Soldato
- Joined
- 27 Mar 2013
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I always thought that regardless of manufacturer, for track ceramics are a bad idea (i like the idea of no/little brake dust just not the cost).
Picked up my new car this weekend........955hp V10 Audi RS6! (HP figure updated 08/10/22)
- Thread starter ianh
- Start date
I always thought that regardless of manufacturer, for track ceramics are a bad idea (i like the idea of no/little brake dust just not the cost).
Exact same issue I had on my 911 with ceramics, they de-laminated from heat from 20 minute track sessions. Cost me £2500 for a new second hand set, still a lot cheaper than the 5-6k bill from Porsche. This was why I threw 911 Turbo steel disc on the car for track work which did the job well but once you have had ceramics they really are fantastic. The benefits are:
- No dust (Easily best benefit)
- Super smooth and quiet braking
- Zero fade and very powerful
- Better ride quality, due to unsprung mass reduction
- Better acceleration and handling due to unsprung mass reduction
- Road lifespan of 100k-200k miles for disc
- 25k road lifespan for pads
The advantages on a road car are superb and if there were an option on any new car I was buying I would select the upgrade as long as the additional cost was 5k or less because to me for the benefits it is worth it.
The problems they are though are:
- Fragile, make sure if a garage does work on your car they don't drop a wheel on the disc or miss-handled the disc as they can chip easily.
- Old gen disc as outlined above are not suitable for track work, newer versions are better, Porsche also found that making the disc larger helped to reduce issue of de-lamination.
- Cost!
- Some cars and drivers find they lack a little pedal feel and initial bite in wet conditions compared to steels.
They are not perfect but for me I really like ceramics and for a road car they are great, no dust, better ride, no squeaking, incredible zero fade performance.
Soldato
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- 27 Mar 2013
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Are the pads different to normal pads for steel discs then?
Yes, you can use ceramic pads on a steel disc without issue. But if you use steel pads on a ceramic disc the steel pad would destroy/de-laminate the ceramic disc.
So there is a material difference in the pads, as to what I do not know, but ceramic pads seem to work just fine on both steel and ceramic disc, I know as I did without issue by Porsche recommendation.
My Rear Diff - IT GO BOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!
Well it's more of whine to be more accurate (sorry the click-bait
)
With a 100k+ mile car pushing 900hp+ for the last 8000 miles it's no wonder there was going to be a weak spot found eventually. I was expecting it to be a driveshaft TBH but the rear diff was also a worry (front diff/transfer box all in uprated GB) as well as potentially the wheel bearings (replaced during 900 conversion).
I dropped it off at the garage last night and they've just confirmed the bearings had failed and were making some quite impressive noise on the lift
So heres my symptoms and a quick vid of the noise for those who are interested -
Whine only present when pressing the throttle, even just 1-2%. No whine when off throttle.
Noise is road speed dependant not gear/rev. I tried 2nd-6th at 40mph so 5500rpm to 1500rpm and the whine stays the same.
Noise starts from 20mph to 100+ and the whine starts as a low freq low volume noise. At 40 and 60mph the volume peaks (resonance) and then rises to extremely high freq low volume by 100mph+.
Cornering & bumps have no effect on the noise nor does braking (if you keep the throttle pressed too).
Passenger's in the back seat at the time said there was "buzzing" by their feet under load.
The rest of the car drives, stops & handles exactly as before but the MPG was down slightly (6 less MPG shown when doing 60mph on a motorway) due to the increased drag in the drivetrain.
In the video I'm just tapping the accelerator a tiny amount every 1-2 seconds so the noise appears/disappears making it easier to hear the difference.
So my initial plan was to check with Audi for costs/time for a new one. After the call I had a cry and a sit down (which was very difficult considering the vigorous bumming Audi* gave me) and then got around to finding a decent gearbox place in Kent to get it rebuilt instead for under half the price of a new one. It should be all back running next week with my new brakes fitted, new diff and a considerably lighter wallet!
PS Warranties are very important! If your current one runs out and can't be extended (car now over 100k miles) then get another one pronto! Doh!
*Audi wanted £4300 with an unspecified waiting time as they had none anywhere, not even in Germany.
Well it's more of whine to be more accurate (sorry the click-bait
)With a 100k+ mile car pushing 900hp+ for the last 8000 miles it's no wonder there was going to be a weak spot found eventually. I was expecting it to be a driveshaft TBH but the rear diff was also a worry (front diff/transfer box all in uprated GB) as well as potentially the wheel bearings (replaced during 900 conversion).
I dropped it off at the garage last night and they've just confirmed the bearings had failed and were making some quite impressive noise on the lift
So heres my symptoms and a quick vid of the noise for those who are interested -
Whine only present when pressing the throttle, even just 1-2%. No whine when off throttle.
Noise is road speed dependant not gear/rev. I tried 2nd-6th at 40mph so 5500rpm to 1500rpm and the whine stays the same.
Noise starts from 20mph to 100+ and the whine starts as a low freq low volume noise. At 40 and 60mph the volume peaks (resonance) and then rises to extremely high freq low volume by 100mph+.
Cornering & bumps have no effect on the noise nor does braking (if you keep the throttle pressed too).
Passenger's in the back seat at the time said there was "buzzing" by their feet under load.
The rest of the car drives, stops & handles exactly as before but the MPG was down slightly (6 less MPG shown when doing 60mph on a motorway) due to the increased drag in the drivetrain.
In the video I'm just tapping the accelerator a tiny amount every 1-2 seconds so the noise appears/disappears making it easier to hear the difference.
So my initial plan was to check with Audi for costs/time for a new one. After the call I had a cry and a sit down (which was very difficult considering the vigorous bumming Audi* gave me) and then got around to finding a decent gearbox place in Kent to get it rebuilt instead for under half the price of a new one. It should be all back running next week with my new brakes fitted, new diff and a considerably lighter wallet!
PS Warranties are very important! If your current one runs out and can't be extended (car now over 100k miles) then get another one pronto! Doh!
*Audi wanted £4300 with an unspecified waiting time as they had none anywhere, not even in Germany.
Yeap, it also looks like the diff oil I'd paid to be changed 10k miles ago was never done looking at the stuff that came out of it. Unfortunately the Gearbox place chucked the oil away otherwise I'd have taken a sample to be analysed so I could raise hell with the extremely reputable garage which have now charged me for 3 jobs which they haven't done (that I've found so far).
Plus my brake fitrment has been a comedy of error with incorrect brake lines, mis-communication between garage and retailers of the kit etc so it'll be an extra week before it's done.
Why is it so hard for companies to be good at something any more?
Plus my brake fitrment has been a comedy of error with incorrect brake lines, mis-communication between garage and retailers of the kit etc so it'll be an extra week before it's done.
Why is it so hard for companies to be good at something any more?
Soldato
- Joined
- 27 Mar 2013
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Surely a warranty wouldn't cover something with almost double the standard power? As for mpgs, does that mean it dropped to single figures
theone8181 - The comment was warranties in general rather than for my specific car, which you can't get a warranty for now anyway.
grudas - My diff failure was from a seized needle bearing mainly due to mileage combined with old oil rather than *just* the extra power but it certainly wouldn't have helped According to the transmission company they reckon that 1 needle had been seized for a while looking at the wear (est 5k+ miles) before the two either side of the existing failure also failed. At least it'll be stronger once it's finished!
grudas - My diff failure was from a seized needle bearing mainly due to mileage combined with old oil rather than *just* the extra power but it certainly wouldn't have helped
According to the transmission company they reckon that 1 needle had been seized for a while looking at the wear (est 5k+ miles) before the two either side of the existing failure also failed. At least it'll be stronger once it's finished!
Soldato
- Joined
- 27 Mar 2013
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- 9,353
theone8181 - The comment was warranties in general rather than for my specific car, which you can't get a warranty for now anyway.
grudas - My diff failure was from a seized needle bearing mainly due to mileage combined with old oil rather than *just* the extra power but it certainly wouldn't have helped
I see, I guess if 1 bearing has seized the others are probably having to work harder.
It's been a while so "Big Update Time" -
August
Diff - Fixed the rear diff, had it completely rebuilt so it should last another 100k miles easily!
Brakes - Had my new 410mm AP Racing Setup fitted
Brand New -
After 2500+ miles
Dusty!!!!!
Lovely and clean again!!!!!!!!!!!!
The garage also took a pic of of my new AP 410mm discs vs the old AP 390mm ones they took off which had been cooked by a mix of several trackdays and then 5 months of 900hp - I don't think they are supposed to look like that
September
10K Servicing - done at Unit20 in the Wirral plus the following extra bits -
Other than the servicing bits, we found that the creaking/clunking noise was from the suspension arms and that the DRC leak, which was a slight weep a month ago, has now stopped (yay) but the flexible pipes are very badly corroded and need replacing before it can be re-pressurised.
Minor Jobs - I've been buying a few bits just to sort out some of the cosmetic issues I have from it being a 100k mile daily driver -
Meetings - Visited Brands Hatch for a PistonHeads Sunday Service
Also took some pics in the nice weather
August
Diff - Fixed the rear diff, had it completely rebuilt so it should last another 100k miles easily!
Brakes - Had my new 410mm AP Racing Setup fitted
Brand New -
After 2500+ miles
Dusty!!!!!
Lovely and clean again!!!!!!!!!!!!
The garage also took a pic of of my new AP 410mm discs vs the old AP 390mm ones they took off which had been cooked by a mix of several trackdays and then 5 months of 900hp - I don't think they are supposed to look like that
September
10K Servicing - done at Unit20 in the Wirral plus the following extra bits -
- Gearbox Service
- Rear Diff Oil re-fill
- New engine undertray fitted
- Front suspension arm noise located (to be dealt with next month)
- DRC suspension leak found (to be dealt with next month)
Other than the servicing bits, we found that the creaking/clunking noise was from the suspension arms and that the DRC leak, which was a slight weep a month ago, has now stopped (yay) but the flexible pipes are very badly corroded and need replacing before it can be re-pressurised.
Minor Jobs - I've been buying a few bits just to sort out some of the cosmetic issues I have from it being a 100k mile daily driver -
- Fitted a new front splitter to replace the badly battered and bruised one which the previous owner had glued 2 Laser Jammers too. During their none too subtle removal by MRC (think chisels/screwdrivers were used) the plastic splitter was scratched to pieces and cosmetically wrecked. Simple job to replace, 5x Torx bits and some trim poppers, took about 15mins after I'd got the car jacked up after Tea.
- Changed the license plate holder screws (rusted) & broken plastic protectors for a new set.
- Found some rust in the NSR arch which needs sorting before winter starts.
Meetings - Visited Brands Hatch for a PistonHeads Sunday Service
Also took some pics in the nice weather
It's quite an experience! Such an understated car
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