Poll: Poll: Prime Minister Theresa May calls General Election on June 8th

[VincentHanna]

Can you point to the years where spending was cut?

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/custom_chart

That's only because costs for Pensions, the NHS, schools etc have ballooned.

Come on, we all know services have been cut! My local police and county council have been selling off buildings left, right and centre to raise cash. My other half works in adult social care for the council and they've had to cut back a huge amount on services they used to provide.

 

[Uther]

The current polls in relation to the Lib Dems are very interesting. Their support appears to have reduced and is at the lowest point it has been all year. Yet, their membership numbers went through the roof when the election was called and i think are now higher than they have ever been. That is quite a stark contrast to the poll we have here.

Also, in my area i have seen more Lib Dem signs/posters in peoples gardens/on peoples houses than ever.

I am surprised they aren't much higher in the polls tbh, but I have not seen much from them. I don't believe for one second the poll about only 22% being in favour of remain now. The Lib Dems should have been shouting from the rooftops about brexit.
I am pleased to see though that every time a Tory supporter opens their mouth their vote share drops
Hopefully people are waking up.

 

[MichaelAwkward]

That's only because costs for Pensions, the NHS, schools etc have ballooned.

Come on, we all know services have been cut! My local police and county council have been selling off buildings left, right and centre to raise cash. My other half works in adult social care for the council and they've had to cut back a huge amount on services they used to provide.

And particularly in the case of the NHS and schools, a lot of that ballooning in costs is down to spending commitments taken under the previous labour government.

 

[Dolph]

That's only because costs for Pensions, the NHS, schools etc have ballooned.

Come on, we all know services have been cut! My local police and county council have been selling off buildings left, right and centre to raise cash. My other half works in adult social care for the council and they've had to cut back a huge amount on services they used to provide.

The deficit doesn't care how money is spent, it is simply the difference between money in and money out.

We haven't had actual austerity in the UK, we simply stopped increasing public spending year on year by large amounts and reprioritised where the money was going.

Now, you can argue the decisions made were wrong, but let's at least argue reality.

 

[chroniclard]

Expect the death tax proposal will lose the Tories a shed load of votes.

 

[VincentHanna]

And particularly in the case of the NHS and schools, a lot of that ballooning in costs is down to spending commitments taken under the previous labour government.

Such as?

Are we saying the conservatives who have been in power for 7 years have had no chance to correct the previous governments "bad" spending?

 

[Dolph]

Expect the death tax proposal will lose the Tories a shed load of votes.

I don't understand this, raising the limit on what you can keep from 23,000 to 100,000 and allowing you to defer it is bad why?

 

[Destination]

That's only because costs for Pensions, the NHS, schools etc have ballooned.

Come on, we all know services have been cut! My local police and county council have been selling off buildings left, right and centre to raise cash. My other half works in adult social care for the council and they've had to cut back a huge amount on services they used to provide.

What magic pot of money would you spend from?
If we are cutting some services back, yet overall amounts of spending have increased, and we are slowly working to a payment static position, isn't this a good thing?
You can't keep spending what you don't have ad infinitum. It doesn't work like that.

 

[Destination]

I don't understand this, raising the limit on what you can keep from 23,000 to 100,000 and allowing you to defer it is bad why?

Is this exactly what is being proposed?
It certainly isn't being reported or reflected as such?
Does the current assessment take into account income and assets or just income?

-edit
also have they stated any proposal for what the limit on the various pension means testing will be?
I can't seem to find this information anywhere, will it be based upon assets and income also? or purely income?

 

[Uther]

I don't understand this, raising the limit on what you can keep from 23,000 to 100,000 and allowing you to defer it is bad why?

Because people didn't lose their houses before? Old people might get a bit upset about that.

 

[chroniclard]

I don't understand this, raising the limit on what you can keep from 23,000 to 100,000 and allowing you to defer it is bad why?

Because they are abolishing the cap. Because they now include your home. Because it could potentially cost you the majority of your house. Because its a massive stealth inheritance tax.

 

[Dolph]

Because they are abolishing the cap. Because they now include your home. Because it could potentially cost you the majority of your house. Because its a massive stealth inheritance tax.

There has never been a cap, and residential care has always included your home in the assets...

 

[Uther]

Because they are abolishing the cap. Because they now include your home. Because it could potentially cost you the majority of your house. Because its a massive stealth inheritance tax.

I do feel the other parties really do need to push this, as I think it could potentially cost May the victory she expected.

 

[scorza]

Is this exactly what is being proposed?
It certainly isn't being reported or reflected as such?
Does the current assessment take into account income and assets or just income?

The current assessment for whether you have to pay for social care just includes income and savings. If you have more than £23k (I think) then you have to pay and could be forced to sell your house. The new proposal includes the value of your house in the assessment, but you won't have to sell your house until after you and your partner (if applicable) are dead.

 

[Uther]

There has never been a cap, and residential care has always included your home in the assets...

But care at home didn't include your home in the assets, and 3 out of 4 have care at home...

 

[MichaelAwkward]

Such as?

Are we saying the conservatives who have been in power for 7 years have had no chance to correct the previous governments "bad" spending?

PFI contracts.

£68bn worth were made during the Labour years which tied us into £215bn of total repayments.

Look at all the NHS trusts that have been teetering on the edge of insolvency due to their finance committments.

Yes, they were first brought in by John Major, but Labour came to rely on them even though there were many examples of them failing to provide the contracted objectives resulting in them ending up relying on public sector money regardless (e.g the attempted 2003 privatisation of Underground rolling stock).

I'm not an expert but I don't think the coalition had any option but to continue with them otherwise they'd just end up spending even more anyway.

EDIT: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/jul/05/pfi-cost-300bn

 

[McPhee]

Lib Dems - what is he smoking!? Fair enough lie to get into power but to deliberately alienate over half the country to start with (48% remainers down to about 22% now I think?) is a bit of a career breaker although fair play - he's sticking to party policy. Bit un-liberal about gay people though so a hypocrite.

The Lib Dems are the most experienced party in UK politics at appealing to the majority, while failing to secure a majority of votes. As the past year has worn on, it's only become ever clearer that pushing a strong pro-EU message has limited their appeal to ~48% of voters, minus the ones who don't care enough about the issue any more. It was a monumentally stupid decision to push the issue so strongly.

When I look at the campaign Labour are fighting, and their successes in spite of their unpopular leader, the continued media smear campaign, and some of the more "out there" policies, I feel rather annoyed at the Lib Dem leadership TBH. It just goes to show what they could have achieved if they'd put Brexit to one side and focussed on domestic policy.

As for Farron's beliefs making him illiberal, I think that's only possible if you're using a very skewed definition of Liberalism. I don't agree with his views. But I respect his right to hold them, and I respect the way he reconciles his views with his actions as a politician. There is little evidence that his Christian beliefs have had a negative impact on others through his position as an MP.

 

[Dolph]

Because people didn't lose their houses before? Old people might get a bit upset about that.

Those in residential care did, their asset limit was 23k including property.

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/paying-for-permanent-residential-care/

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/the-means-test-and-your-property/

For those needing care at home, the amount is the same, but property is excluded at present.

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/means-tests-for-help-with-care-costs-how-they-work

If we are going to discuss the changes, can we at least start with some facts in the thread.

 

[Tunney]

Can you point to the years where spending was cut?

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/custom_chart

That graph doesn't take inflation into considered. If you look at spending in real-terms (and spending as a proportion of GDP), there's been a cut in total spending.

But that's really by-the-by when you look at the details. No-one cares if total spending is steady when people are seeing absolute cuts in spending at a local level.

 

[Uther]

Those in residential care did, their asset limit was 23k including property.

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/paying-for-permanent-residential-care/

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/the-means-test-and-your-property/

For those needing care at home, the amount is the same, but property is excluded at present.

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/means-tests-for-help-with-care-costs-how-they-work

If we are going to discuss the changes, can we at least start with some facts in the thread.

We will never agree on this Dolph, spin it however you want. The fact is that the 75% of old people who need care at home will now lose the home they have worked all their lives for to pay for that care.
It makes zero difference to my situation, but it shows a huge arrogance on the part of May that she thinks she doesn't need the pensioner vote to win, and seems to be relying on the rabid ukip voters she's acquired since the brexit vote.