Poll: Poll: Prime Minister Theresa May calls General Election on June 8th

Who will you vote for?

  • Conservatives

  • Labour

  • Lib Dem

  • UKIP

  • Other (please state)

  • I won't be voting


Results are only viewable after voting.
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This is something I dislike, not the rise in fees but the mad method they used, which might well generate a 30 year write off black hole.
Then selling off loans, and the rates of interest on the current loans.
Its not the sort of plan they should have implemented to increase fees, the fee increases themselves if necessary should persists by this odd loan system should not.

The problem is we have a society that wants the old free university which took 5 to 10% of each year, but to scale it up to 50% of each year, and that just doesn't work.

What worries me more is those who advocate a graduate tax, without realising that what we have is essentially a capped graduate tax and they are just proposing that university fees have no limit at all...
 
They'll be crying all the way to their new global financial centre ;)

With eu levels of regulation? Remember the only thing that stopped the eu implementing draconian legislation and regulation on the city of London was a veto. Even if the eu force euro clearing to take place in the eurozone only, it won't create a global financial centre.
 
The problem is we have a society that wants the old free university which took 5 to 10% of each year, but to scale it up to 50% of each year, and that just doesn't work.

No it doesn't and is the fundamental reason we have these exorbitant fees in place now.

I have always said, it's a laudible idea to want to educate the population to a higher level, but reducing the bar to entry just so the 50% could make it defeats the purpose, devalues the education and has indebted a generation.

So maybe cutting universities back to those who actually have the ability would be a good start
 
Sadly, no one is advocating a good universal income and taxation system

I would vote for that all day long. Unfortunately it's never going to happen because the general public are too stupid to understand percentages. I had a conversation with someone a few years back about exactly this. He just couldn't get his head around the fact that someone earning £10k taxed at 20% is paying less tax than someone earning £100k taxed at 20%. In his view they were paying the same tax. I fear a significant proportion of the population thinks this way.
And it's the same with universal income. They would never accept say a £10k universal income for all because in their minds it would be giving £10k to someone who is already rich, even though that system would abolish the tax-free allowance and thus be cost neutral.
 
No I don't.
You can't name anything though, can you?
You've deflected several times already. Go on have a go.

That's just retarded and you know it. The tory's very rarely announce what they sell and when they do its a few weeks before (royal mail for example). A lot of the nhs contracts that have been sold off have been behind closed doors with the media only reporting on it after it has happened.

So it is very hard to factfully say what they will sell off, but no doubt they will definetely sell it off. I've now admitted that, now do you admit that with their track record of selling, that it is very likely they will continue with it

edit:
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1518..._beauty_spot_Seven_Sisters_could_be_sold_off/

conservative council plan to sell off beauty spots, which reminds me of the conservatives selling off natural beauty spots for fracking
 
Any party that wins should raise taxes in some manner. It's just doing it fairly and not screwing Joe public that the problem.
Yeah this is the Tory party though. We're going to get taxed to death, shortly after the election.
 
Yeah this is the Tory party though. We're going to get taxed to death, shortly after the election.


I can't wait for the conservatives to tax and frak their voters up haha. Wont bother me though as im extremely wealthy :)

Luckily i care about everyone else and it'll suck seeing it happen, and that's why i'll always vote labour.
 
No it doesn't and is the fundamental reason we have these exorbitant fees in place now.

I have always said, it's a laudible idea to want to educate the population to a higher level, but reducing the bar to entry just so the 50% could make it defeats the purpose, devalues the education and has indebted a generation.

So maybe cutting universities back to those who actually have the ability would be a good start

No. We're past that technologically, socially and economically. The future of our democracy and country depends on the same three pillars as before: education, education, education.

Expanding flexible provision, increasing mobility between vocational and academic institutions, as well as global mobility and language provision, and creating a National Higher Curriculum and a better qualifications framework focused on the individual, fit for the age of automation, would help get most of our people to where most need to be. Academia should never become a passport to cheap elitism via professional prestige monopolies nor a middle class retirement plan, either. Indeed, I'd be brutal on prestige too: OCW/MOOC style learning, with full credit and opportunity to sit examinations at any publicly funded UK institution for a fee; separate fees for use of facilities and coursework where applicable. Massive crack down on -isms and systematic biases too, particularly ageism (considering what's happening to pensions, anyway). Piddling around with lower education, selective schooling and throwing most people out on the complex market unprepared and without a lifeline in later career, which on-the-job training is failing to tackle, is futile against the challenges that lie ahead. In fact, scrap gatekeeping selection altogether - make the progression harder and mastery supreme. When it comes to the essentials - and knowing one's **** is essential - the state must level the playing field. Failure means GD IRL.

In short, if BoJo can be tutored through a half-decent education, Trump can end up at Penn for business, and Bush at Yale - among dozens of publicly known dunces in positions of power - you'd be surprised how many people are 'good enough'. And good enough is the floor of all creative endeavours. Some merited elitism will likely still remain, but as any good liberal would assert: crack open vested privilege and see what falls out! :p
 
That's just retarded and you know it. The tory's very rarely announce what they sell and when they do its a few weeks before (royal mail for example). A lot of the nhs contracts that have been sold off have been behind closed doors with the media only reporting on it after it has happened.
So it is very hard to factfully say what they will sell off, but no doubt they will definetely sell it off. I've now admitted that, now do you admit that with their track record of selling, that it is very likely they will continue with it
edit:
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1518..._beauty_spot_Seven_Sisters_could_be_sold_off/
conservative council plan to sell off beauty spots, which reminds me of the conservatives selling off natural beauty spots for fracking

Glad you finally found something, that might eventually be sold off, in a small region online newspaper.
Good source, well researched.
Makes that big poster of drivel you linked all the more pertinent and authoritative.
 
No it doesn't and is the fundamental reason we have these exorbitant fees in place now.

It scales up just fine. The rest of Europe manages. We're choosing not to pay for tuition fees; it's not forced on us by circumstance.
 
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We don't invest in or ring-fence higher learning or research enough as a matter of course. It's a travesty.


We also manage to oversubscribe, chasing said fees, and charge non-EU nationals triple. The mixture of cheap profiteering, hobbled incentives, lack of vision in government and flaky performance evaluations are just some of the problems. But just like with prisons and schools, we're retreating from the problems into the comfort blanket of an idyllic and ahistorical past. Shocking!
 
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I've never understood tuition fees. Surely by providing the very best education for our young, we are ensuring the future success of the nation. I'm happy to pay for that through additional taxation.
 
I've never understood tuition fees. Surely by providing the very best education for our young, we are ensuring the future success of the nation. I'm happy to pay for that through additional taxation.

I put it slightly differently to a very pro-selection Tory: we, unlike say China and India, don't have the numbers to be picky; the competition is global, the effects are very local; and if you want your pension, better pay for its future. It's also obvious that one cannot climb a ladder that isn't there; once successful, I see no rationale for kicking it away so others can't follow, if you believe in fair competition that is. His reply was some sort of slogan 'hierarchy breeds unity!' (The army really got his number, but he's never served nor volunteered in any form of paramilitary training, or even the scouts!) I left him pondering the nature of revolutions in rigidly hierarchical societies. :p
 
I've never understood tuition fees. Surely by providing the very best education for our young, we are ensuring the future success of the nation. I'm happy to pay for that through additional taxation.

Certainly I am to, on the proviso that all fully funded degrees meet a minimum standard of quality, value to society and job prospects after the degree. I would not be happy funding degrees that are worthless or where the candidates only prospects afterwards are minimum wage retail jobs that do not require a degree.
 
No. We're past that technologically, socially and economically. The future of our democracy and country depends on the same three pillars as before: education, education, education.

Looking at a significant number of posters around here, i'd say those pillars haven't been working very well :p

Expanding flexible provision, increasing mobility between vocational and academic institutions, as well as global mobility and language provision, and creating a National Higher Curriculum and a better qualifications framework focused on the individual, fit for the age of automation, would help get most of our people to where most need to be. Academia should never become a passport to cheap elitism via professional prestige monopolies nor a middle class retirement plan, either. Indeed, I'd be brutal on prestige too: OCW/MOOC style learning, with full credit and opportunity to sit examinations at any publicly funded UK institution for a fee; separate fees for use of facilities and coursework where applicable. Massive crack down on -isms and systematic biases too, particularly ageism (considering what's happening to pensions, anyway). Piddling around with lower education, selective schooling and throwing most people out on the complex market unprepared and without a lifeline in later career, which on-the-job training is failing to tackle, is futile against the challenges that lie ahead. In fact, scrap gatekeeping selection altogether - make the progression harder and mastery supreme. When it comes to the essentials - and knowing one's **** is essential - the state must level the playing field. Failure means GD IRL.

In short, if BoJo can be tutored through a half-decent education, Trump can end up at Penn for business, and Bush at Yale - among dozens of publicly known dunces in positions of power - you'd be surprised how many people are 'good enough'. And good enough is the floor of all creative endeavours. Some merited elitism will likely still remain, but as any good liberal would assert: crack open vested privilege and see what falls out! :p

OK, I admit, a much better solution than my lazy 'quick fix' :D
 
Certainly I am to, on the proviso that all fully funded degrees meet a minimum standard of quality, value to society and job prospects after the degree. I would not be happy funding degrees that are worthless or where the candidates only prospects afterwards are minimum wage retail jobs that do not require a degree.

And that's the problem. We have too many people studying poor quality degrees, irrelevant degrees and too many vocational subjects pretending to be degrees. We also have a high drop out rate and huge qualification wastage.

That's not so bad when people pay for themselves, but getting rid of fees is going to result in less places and less variety of qualifications, but will also return value to those who continue to obtain the remaining degrees.
 
Glad you finally found something, that might eventually be sold off, in a small region online newspaper.
Good source, well researched.
Makes that big poster of drivel you linked all the more pertinent and authoritative.


Like i said the tories very very rarely let slip about what they're selling as there is always done behind closed doors and it causes outrage and petitions galore over it. So regardless, its a credible source. If you look it up there are many other mainstream newspapers that have mentioned it.

It's fine bury your head in the sand, it's well known the tories love auctioning off vital services to their friends so they can make profit.
 
With eu levels of regulation? Remember the only thing that stopped the eu implementing draconian legislation and regulation on the city of London was a veto. Even if the eu force euro clearing to take place in the eurozone only, it won't create a global financial centre.

This. Long-term, the EU is unlikely to be any real threat to the financial services industry in the UK. We're favourable territory. The EU, by and large, isn't.

As for Germany, they're probably our biggest ally in our negotiations with the EU. The German economy is reliant upon the stability and prosperity of the EU, so they must make an example of us to ensure others don't try to follow us out. But ultimately, we're the third largest customer of German goods. They need an agreement between the UK and the EU. If discussions fail, it'll hurt Germany deeply.

What would be interesting to see is how accelerated the Brexit timetable becomes if Le Penn wins the French Election. The EU is likely to become rather desperate if that happens; failing to secure mutually beneficial deals with the UK and France is something the EU would struggle to recover from. At best, it would be looking at a deep and long recession.
 
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