Poll: Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Mk II

[Uther]

This has to be the election with the clearest differences for some time. There's very little similarity between the two main parties' manifestos this time.

Yes, and personally I think that is how it should be.

 

[antijoke]

So anyone else seen the labour proposal to change council tax to a land value tax.

Based on their costing document would put my council tax bill up to over 4k a year :/

50% of house value is land value they say and they want to put a level of up to 3%of the land value

Just seen it and do not like the sound of it at all.

 

[Narj]

My home will not be sold to fund my looking after under any party, if i live to an old age i am going to leech as much money as i can out of the system i paid into all my life

I'd rather sell my assets and go to Dignitas, leaving something to my family than use it all to pay someone to wipe my bum.

 

[Hades]

I'd rather sell my assets and go to Dignitas, leaving something to my family than use it all to pay someone to wipe my bum.

Yep, this. I'd sell everything, plan for Dignitas and then go through my little black book of people to get even with before heading off

 

[No1newts]

They've lowered the deficit significantly though with the goal of reaching zero borrowing, which is why everyone is crying about the cuts that have been necessary.

But at the same time debt is up to 1.7 trillion or just shy of 90% of our GDP m.

It depends on your political slant but as to which way you fall but there are equally as many positives toward increased lending to stimulate the economy to bring in more tax receipts to lower debt. This driving down your overall debt, others mays argue (as you do) that reducing spend is a better way to bring down debt, though it has went from around £1 trillion and about 76% of GDP from 2010 to 2017 so evidence would suggest it has failed to succeed.

Borrowing is an interesting statistic but borrowing or cutting or anything is ultimately a drive toward reducing that debt which as above evidence suggests the Tory plan has failed to do.

 

[RDM]

I'm amazed the Tories get so much support on this tech savy forum, with their zero knowledge and attitude to the internet and encryption.

To be honest because they are so clueless you can rely on any legislation being completely pointless and have no real impact.

 

[Hades]

But at the same time debt is up to 1.7 trillion or just shy of 90% of our GDP m.

It depends on your political slant but as to which way you fall but there are equally as many positives toward increased lending to stimulate the economy to bring in more tax receipts to lower debt. This driving down your overall debt, others mays argue (as you do) that reducing spend is a better way to bring down debt, though it has went from around £1 trillion and about 76% of GDP from 2010 to 2017 so evidence would suggest it has failed to succeed.

Borrowing is an interesting statistic but borrowing or cutting or anything is ultimately a drive toward reducing that debt which as above evidence suggests the Tory plan has failed to do.

Fair point. But has borrowing in the past ever resulted in reducing our debt?

 

[gjrc]

So anyone else seen the labour proposal to change council tax to a land value tax.

Based on their costing document would put my council tax bill up to over 4k a year :/

50% of house value is land value they say and they want to put a level of up to 3%of the land value

is this a new policy or in their manifesto? not seen it? surely the conservatives should be climbing all over this?

 

[Roar87]

But at the same time debt is up to 1.7 trillion or just shy of 90% of our GDP m.

Well we do still spend more than we earn so naturally debt was going to continue going up, it is of course less than what would have happened under a Labour government.

 

[No1newts]

snip

I would pick you up on one point here. The trotted line is that big companies will disappear if taxes are upped. Whilst I'm not particularly a fan of corporation tax as a revenue measure increased rates to a limited extent are not going to suddenly make huge multi nationals disappear from the country.

Oh we have to pay 1 or 2% extra let's pull out of a multi million/billion pound market in revenge. I know the companies peddle this threat regularly but if an increase is relatively sensible and incremental businesses will get on with it.

 

[Kenai]

Don't know where this 50% or 55% is coming from. The Labour Land Campaign (where the idea seems to be pushed from) say

One method for assessing the value of land separately from the value of buildings on the
land is to start with the known market value of the property as a whole (the building plus
the land),and then deduct the value of the buildings,which roughly corresponds to the
estimated rebuilding costs for insurance purposes,adjusted for depreciation.

That won't generate anywhere near 50% for most typical houses.

 

[Greebo]

To me voting for Labour is like letting the kids decide how much to spend on themselves at Christmas. I'm fully confident I could do a better job of running the country than the current Labour leadership, while having zero Political experience.

Whereas to me a vote for May is like telling your kids there isnt going to be anymore Christmas ever.

 

[prosk]

I'm not rich or a banker and don't have a second home and I don't want Corbyn in. He's spineless, he's at war with his own party and along with Abbott and McDonnell they'd be an absolute disaster.

Actually he had a lot of guts to stand up against all of them and come out on top with his morals intact and stronger support than before. They might resent him but he's the one dragging his party forward single-handedly despite ubiquitous criticism from the media. He might not be loud but he's definitely not spineless.

Edit: Speaking of spineless, Cameron promising a referendum in the first place was a cheap move to take back votes from UKIP, and did a runner when the vote didn't go his way. May U-turned on Brexit, claimed she wouldn't call a snap election, u-turned on her dementia tax and pretty much gave up on trying to win on domestic policy and took refuge under the umbrella of "Brexit means Brexit" whatever that means. Yet people buy this nonsense about being stable when she flip-flops on major issues at the drop of a hat.

 

[scorza]

I would pick you up on one point here. The trotted line is that big companies will disappear if taxes are upped. Whilst I'm not particularly a fan of corporation tax as a revenue measure increased rates to a limited extent are not going to suddenly make huge multi nationals disappear from the country.

Oh we have to pay 1 or 2% extra let's pull out of a multi million/billion pound market in revenge. I know the companies peddle this threat regularly but if an increase is relatively sensible and incremental businesses will get on with it.

It's not big business we should be particularly worried about, imo they'll do quite well out of a Corbyn government as they'll be able to absorb the extra costs of new regulation and let's be honest, won't pay any corporation tax anyway. It's the small and medium sized enterprises (SMEs) that will be decimated under Corbyn.

 

[No1newts]

Well we do still spend more than we earn so naturally debt was going to continue going up, it is of course less than what would have happened under a Labour government.

As I say there is not necessarily a right or wrong here just how you view it through a particular lens. Some will argue if you had loaned more and spent it would have stimulated the economy to drive down debt. The flip side you argue is that we have the best situation we could be in and more lending would only have exacerbated it.

There is no way to know the right answer, personally I believe spending would have helped you don't. We can't definitively say who is right in just pointing out your absolute statement of the Cons benefit is actually anything but a sure thing.

Fair point. But has borrowing in the past ever resulted in reducing our debt?

I'd have to do some research which I don't have time to do at the moment (if you really want I can get back to you on it?) I believe it was post war up until the 70's there was a huge reduction from around 200% to around 40% and whilst I accept that there were of course unique factors to consider the approach was borrow, spend, stimulate to drive down debt.

As I say the above is certainly just my best recall not factual so before a keyboard warrior bashes me to death for it I add the caveat I would need to look back before nailing my colours to them stats above.

 

[Greebo]

So anyone else seen the labour proposal to change council tax to a land value tax.

Based on their costing document would put my council tax bill up to over 4k a year :/

50% of house value is land value they say and they want to put a level of up to 3%of the land value

What costing document? The Telegraph version where they say 55% of your house value is your land? It isnt and never has been and never will be. AFAIK Labour hasnt said what percentage it would be. They said every property will have its land value assessed and you will pay that going forward rather than council tax.

 

[Tunney]

A bit like Corbyn and condemning the IRA?

He's condemned the IRA

You know that nationalising the railways means poorer areas will be contributing more to the railways? Most of journeys are made in the South East... and majority of the cost is covered by the passenger. Now you are expecting the rest of the country to pay more than they do currently towards the railways when most probably don't use them?

Temporarily renationalising the East Coast Mainline actually saved the tax-payer £250 million a year.

We subsidise the railways four times - in real terms - as much under the current privatisation model as we did when they were last in national hands.

Increasing Corporation Tax will lower foreign investment, slow down productivity, decrease employment and the knock on effect is that income tax revenue takes a hit.

Is there much evidence that we've seen the opposite effects since it was lowered? Has productivity improved?

Labour want to reverse the recent cuts. Even at 26%, it'll be lower than it ever was under Thatcher.

 

[No1newts]

It's not big business we should be particularly worried about, imo they'll do quite well out of a Corbyn government as they'll be able to absorb the extra costs of new regulation and let's be honest, won't pay any corporation tax anyway. It's the small and medium sized enterprises (SMEs) that will be decimated under Corbyn.

But playing devils advocate surely as a neo liberal you are all about the survival of the strong so if a business isn't competitive should it not die out and allow a better and stronger business to replace them? You are in effect asking the state to subsume public services to prop up sub standard business practices which is, essentially, pushing what could be argued to be public money into private hands.

 

[Greebo]

Jesus Christ. In my area most family houses are over £1m. So if I've calculated that right it's £16k per year tax for most families around here. Thanks Labour.

Its not. Thats the figures Boris is putting out to scare you all off. You need to look at how much the building plot would be worth for those £1m houses. They are not going to be worth £550k.

 

[LizardKing]

labours manifesto is fully costed

I keep seeing this and intrigued, is there anywhere that has published proper data on how it has shown to be fully costed?