Porsche Owners Thread - If you own one or just like or hate them! :)

[Gibbo]

So regarding the previous comments relating to over revs...

Took my car (2005 C2S) in to get the warranty renewed and have been told can't get a warranty on it as it has over revs in range 3/4 and 5!

Now I admit to hitting the limiter on occasion but have never changed down into the incorrect gear or at unsuitable speeds. So I asked for the print out and the following is what it shows:
Total operating hours = 752hrs
Range 1: 2600 last hrs=737
Range 2: 260 last hrs=633
Range 3: 12 last hrs=251
Range 4: 1 last hrs=251
Range 5: 1 last hrs=251
Range 6: 0 last hrs=0hr

Its worth noting the car was bought from the same OPC ~ 4 years ago, it is 8 years old and had 16,000 miles on when I purchased it. It now has 30,000 miles on. Since I have had it it has only been serviced by that OPC.

So I think from the above I can categorically say that it had those over revs on before I purchased it. i.e. I probably took on ownership at 375 operating hours and these happened at 251 hrs.

The engine has been fine since I have had it but if I had known at the time that this car had these over revs, it could cause engine problems in the future or issues renewing warranty I would have looked elsewhere.
Is there anyway to get exact timestamps for these events?

How do you think I should proceed and what should I expect from the OPC.
I am going to be speaking to them tomorrow regarding it. When I come to sell I don't want these range 3/4/5 over revs to cause an issue.

Cheers,

Ask your OPC to put your case to Germany as having 1 ignition in both 4 and 5 is mathematically impossible, 4 should have more than one, so it's a glitch.

Range 3 they will want to inspect your filter for swarf/debris and do a compression check, which should be fine.

But like you say the hours would suggest it happened before or around your purchase, maybe someone test driving car previous to you. They will have VAL records online ask them to go through them and if they have a VAL from when they prepped the car for you and check the rev ranges on that VAL.

My car has had an issue where the ECU has gone screwy on operating hours, jumped massively, OPC don't know how to help, but it's damn annoying but at same time I'm not re-newing warranty as I want to mod, exhaust, remap, race seats, sticky rubber etc.

 

[Gibbo]

Dr House - Thanks, I imagine that is the likely outcome but I have only briefly spoken to them. Apparently they also spotted it prior to the warrenty renewal last year but still put it on without letting me know.

Gibbo - I had read other threads on pistonheads and they also pointed to a single ignition as showing in both 4/5 or 3/4 and 5 as impossible so its good to get further confirmation. I'll ask about the VAL records, hopefully that will prove it was before they sold the car to me. The range 3 ones also look to be before I purchased it and prior to two major services so would they still need to check the filter or would that have been replaced.

Yeah range 3 is fine but Porsche new rules mean they are now stricter. Fact is I know people with their rev limit increased to nearly 8000rpm which means they have lots of range 3 ignitions, obviously no warranty but they seem to ave no engine issues. Though common sense says an engine revving to 8000rpm often won't last as long as same engine only revving to 7000rpm, as revs equal wear. The main killer of these engines is bore scoring and IMS, you can prevent bore scoring by not loading the engine with torque, so don't floor it in 5th or 6th at 30mph not good at all, change up at 3000rpm minimum and use gears.

Porsche 20k miles service interval s crazy, change every 6-10k instead as 20k is just asking for disaster.

 

[Gibbo]

I will see what they say today. The way I figure it is they were definitely on it when I bought it. If I had known it could cause issues with warranty in the future then I wouldn't have purchased it.

Previous to this I have never had any problems with them so I am hoping/expecting them to foot the bill for the compression test etc if required.

Just say to them you feel that they sold you the car with this information present and request they check the VAL's to confirm, as they hold them on record.

Then also tell them its mathematically impossible to have 1 ignition in both range 4 and 5, meaning you only have over-revs in range3 which were present when you purchased the vehicle. As such they should have no need to reject placing warranty on the car or even wanting to do filter/compression test at your expense.

Just be polite and give the impression you know understand how the above works so they can't fob you off, which hopefully they won't try doing as they should want your money for warranty and then hope that you make claims as the OPC gets paid for any such work.

 

[Gibbo]

Well I have heard back from OPC.

Bit of a background, car is an 05 997 C2S, so 8 years old just gone through its 2nd major service without many issues.

Few weeks later I look to renew warranty and the car needs a bit more work to pass the 111 point check, apparently porsche are now pickier with the 111 point check/allowing extended warrenties.

Corrosion to the gas damper strut on both sides of the suspension
rear bump stops have split which will need to be replaced.
Replacement of the above inc labour ~£1900

Cylinder leakage and compression test ~£700
The results of the test will be sent to porsche to confirm whether a warranty can be applied
As these over revs were from before I owned the car might be some movement on this cost.

The problems with the damper struts weren't spotted during the major service, haven't really noticed a problem with the suspension.

How much would a new engine and labour be if the worst was to happen?

Not really sure how best to proceed.
1. Sack off warranty completely and take the risk (replace corroded gas damper struts in a year or so)
2. Get them to do the cylinder leakage test first and send results to porsche (might be less movement on the cost if not getting the other work done at the same time).

I need to find out what happens if the compression test finds some problem. The test is only required due to over revs before I purchased the car.

So if they do give you a warranty after their testing you'll be 6k lighter, tell them where to go! Give Hartech a call, let them give the car a major service and inspection, about £650 and maybe opt onto their scheme.

 

[Gibbo]

I may end up deciding to sell sooner if something takes my fancy, I would still take a Mustang over anything but insurance is still an issue, I'd like a 911 but personally would see a 997 as a slight side step considering it's the same generation as my Boxtser, same interior etc... (ignoring obviously the epic Turbo and GT versions), a 991 911 is out of my budget but there are plenty of other cars I'd happily try out for a year or so before getting a Mustang.

I'd only consider a 911 a sidestep on looks from front and interior, but to drive it's a completely different animal and a much harder one to learn and because of that I feel more rewarding.

 

[Gibbo]

Air box has arrived, it's a work of art:-

So much carbon, not worth the 6k Porsche charge though....

 

[Gibbo]

wow looks nice.

How much did that cost you? will it give you much more power or better sound?

1.5k delivered, they normally sell for over 2k second hand so I snatched it up as soon as I spotted it.

When combined with the larger throttle body and plenum the gains are across the rev range on power and torque. Supposed to sound awesome, can't wait!

 

[Gibbo]

It's painful how much the price increased on the X51 boxes when they launched the 997.2. I bought mine for $700, resold it for 3 times that.

Yep, in 2006 Porsche would sell it you for less than 1k, now they list at 5.5k and after much haggling they offered me one for 3.8k, way too much. So at 1.5k I went for it.

 

[Gibbo]

What is it? Part of the X51 kit?

Yes, X51 throttle body which is the GT3 throttle body, same part number.

 

[Gibbo]

Is an airbox & a throttle body the same thing then? (Genuine question, I'm clueless about oily bits)

What else is involved (other than the plenum that you mentioned) in the upgrade to X51 spec? Is an upgrade to X51 spec your goal here? Project: Ultimate C2S?

What changed between 997.1 & 997.2 C2S engines? Power went from 355 to 385 didn't it? Did 997.2 C2S include X51 as standard, or did something else change (map etc)?

Nope they are separate, just X51 air box hose only fits the larger throttle body, I'm using an Maxspeed plenum, not X51 plenum as am keeping the stock intake manifolds, as removing them is a lot of work and the gains is unknown.

Full X51 spec was dual intake box with dual filters, larger throttle body, X51 plenum, intake manifolds, stiffer spring in cylinder head for higher rpm limit, X51 exhaust manifolds, PSE exhaust, 600 cel cats and X51 remap.

I don't have X51 intake manifolds, x51 plenum or modded cylinder head. These I don't intend on bothering with, a nightmare to fit and the gains in the X51 kit are said to come mostly from the bits I've gone with. On top of this I am however using better flowing filters and have 200 cel cats which flow much better along with softronic map.

997.2 engine went to 380BHP as Porsche moved to direct fuel injection giving more power and much better economy. There was still a power pack option which took them to 404BHP area but was a lot cheaper as was not carbon.

Mine when done will hopefully be somewhere in 385-395 area hopefully, the biggest gain comes from the 200 cel cats as a individual component.

 

[Gibbo]

Gibbo how long do you plan to keep the car now? If your not looking to jump upto a GT3 would you consider a 997.2 GTS? I would have loved the GTS but I cant really afford one.

997.2 GTS are awesome, but from where my car is now would not be much of an upgrade if any at all in power/handling. Next step has to be a Turbo with some weight pulled out of it or a 997.2 GT3, or GTR or a Z06. Or go back to a CSL as a dedicated track/weekend weapon. Gonna keep 911 until mid next year then see what I want to do

 

[Gibbo]

Gotta say this video shows how good the 911 is:-

Even more impressive is it's a cab, and a bog standard model, no fancy torque vectoring, ceramics, or PDCC, a modern Carrera S 991 with all extras would be even quicker.

For comparison the 997.1 C2S did a dry time of 1:24.6 and new 981 Boxster S is 1:23.9

Porsche really are in a league of their own handling wise.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Starting to really like the new Pirelli Corsa rubber I fitted, I had to much pressure in them, due to how stiff they are they need approx 5psi letting out. Good drive tonight on my favourite roads and every corner 2-4mph faster, immense dry grip. Even better is how direct and the amount of feel they give too, I am so excited now to get on track with these as can see them being awesome.

Can see why the GT3 guys rave about these tyres, mega stiff sidewalls, superb dry grip and not scary in the wet.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Tonight I fitted:-
Carbon fiber plenum
GT3 throttle body (76mm upto 82mm)
X51 carbon fiber dual air intake

Installation was a bit tight but easier than expected, took my time to prevent any potential air/vacuum links. Made sure to disconnect battery etc. So ECU fully reset.

Connected back up, left for 30s so throttle body could sort itself out, started car and no idle issues, left it to idle for 5 minutes.

Went for a drive, throttle seems a little less responsive which is to be expected as at present air box has a pair of old stock paper filters in it and the right hand side intake does not have a hold cut yet in the decklid for cold air feed. Felt similar to the stock filter in the regular Airbox would do, as high flow panel filters really improve throttle response.

So jobs to do:-
1. Cut hole in deck lid so cold air feed works.
2. Fit performance BMC filters, due end of week.
3. Extend MAF wiring so can route maf cable neatly under Airbox and not over it.
4. Maybe buy shorter oil filler tube, as stock one is too long, but does fit.
5. Fit new plugs, current are 20k miles old.
6. Change oil to Millers Nano oil.
7. Go back to dyno.

A picture of course:-

Glad I did it myself, always more enjoyable, though only when it goes well.



Oh and finally the good point, no infact the sensational point, the noise OMG the noise, no word of a lie past 5000RPM it sounds like 10000RPM, sounds like a CUP car, I'd go as far as saying the noise in the cabin is GT3 beating. Seems to pull better too, but sure improve more with second hole cut along with fresh performance filters.

 

[Gibbo]

Nice work!

Are you going to cut the deck lid yourself?

Look forward to dyno results.

No chance, body work is one thing I can't do, spannering I generally attempt and I've got a pretty good tool collection now.

 

[Gibbo]

Looks fast!

 

[Gibbo]

Second hole now cut by local garage.

 

[Gibbo]

Why are you using a non approved oil in your car? Don't fall for the hype

Purely based on Hartechs recommendation, hence I was considering it.

 

[Gibbo]

Who?

http://www.hartech.org/porsche_996_997_Boxster_engine_failure_repair_rebuilds_prices.html

Porsche engine specialist, considered one of if not the best, they have a huge following in Porsche community and are known as go to people if you have an engine issue.

They done years of research on how to reduce risk of scored bores in older Porsches and IMS failures.

According to them stuff like lower temp thermostats, third radiators and the millers oil can all help protect and cool the engine better.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Ok got BMC filters in, allowed throttle body to adjust and went for a good drive, I'd say what I've noticed is:-

Throttle response is now better than the stock paper filters, but marginally less slight than before stock BMC airbox and stock throttlebody, this is no doubt the effect going from 76mm - 82mm throttle body, is it an issue, well no, it's marginal and hard to notice.

Maybe a marginal torque loss sub 3000rpm but it could just be the fact the car seems smoother in power delivery now, as the car seems to accelerate faster.

4000rpm and above the car pulls harder, but at 5500rpm and above it feels like it's pulling way harder and would keep pulling so hard right upto 9000rpm if the engine could spin that fast. Put it this way floor it in 2nd gear at 4000rpm and you need to be very quick to get the change upto 3rd.

It seems 1-2mph quicker by a landmark I regular accelerate too on my route to work. If I was to have the dyno in my head I'd be thinking similar/same power upto 3500rpm but then a steeper upwards curve above 3500rpm with more top-end power for sure.

Onto the noise, sorry GT3 guys but from inside the cabin to my ears it's better, from the outside I'd say it's not, but on the inside it's like a race/cup car when the revs pass 5000rpm, infact 5000rpm now sounds like 7000rpm did previously, it's absolute music to my ears.

Shall aim to get on dyno next week and to see if there is any change power/torque.

P.S. Still need to sort rubber bellow on right side to seal against warm air but the gap is less than an inch so doubt it's having a noticeable effect on performance.