Pro Cycling Discussion 2017

That incident again:


First climb of the TDF today finishing with the Planche des Belles Filles climb. A hard finish rising over 1000 meters in 5.9km and with a stretch of 20% percent gradient right at the top should see some action from Froome.
 
Lot of attention being given to the "elbow", think some people are missing the fact that Sagan started in the middle of the road and ended up right near the barrier - which he should have been aware of. There was room for Demare to get through, there should also have been room for Cav to get through. I don't think it was really intentional on Sagan's part, but it was certainly reckless.

As for the judgement, we're all just amateurs really so it's difficult to say. All of the camera angles we've seen tell very different stories, and I assume the commisaires have even more. As i see it there are a few reasons for disqualification. 1) To keep other riders safe, 2) to highlight the severity of the situation and make sure everyone's aware of how serious deviating in a sprint can be, 3) to manage certain riders egos and make sure they understand they're not above the law, and 4) to allow for a sprint and points competition in the race that's more in line with what the french organisers wanted anyway. Some naturally more justified than others, but it's an understandable decision.
The elbow was getting all the attention pre-DQ, by a lot of commenters, as a reason that Sagan should be DQ'd. Now that he has been DQ'd, we seem to be saying it's correct, but because of the move, rather than the elbow.

Personally, I think that they're digging themselves a hole with this decision. Are we going to be DQ-ing these sort of moves every time?
 
Sagan is 4/7 for the green jersey - surely that's a safe investment as he only loses it if he falls off
... ;)

Cav looks to be going home, then. Not sure I agree with the 'Sagan elbowed him' hysteria, though.

Looks like a simple collision to me.
Have to agree, the elbow was reactionary, not purely an aggressive move and didn't come anywhere near to connecting. Online footage FPS is generally too low to see it in context - the frames SDK linked kinda show how 'late' it was as an aggressive move. I'd say it was more 'closing the door' to the barriers to stop anyone coming past/over the top of him as he opened his sprint, rather than an intentional move to push Cav into the barriers.

Sagan cutting across Cav's line is what caused the crash, not the elbow and is hopefully what he's being penalised for. OK he can argue that he was jumping onto Demare's wheel, but he equally didn't need to close the gap to the barriers to do so. He had tons of space in front and to his left, there seemed to be little reason to cut right.

I agree with Bear, have a look in the footage, Demare cuts across Bouhanni towards the middle of the road ruining Bouhanni's sprint. Nobody came down but it was just as stupid/reckless a move as Sagan's, it even causes Rowelandts to swerve away. I know he wasn't sprinting (just dropping Greipel off) but it gives you an idea of how riders reflexes and reactions are amplified by moves like that. If Sagan is getting DQ'd for a reckless move, then Demare should too. Although they had different outcomes, both moves were equally reckless.

Not withstanding that, it's great that Demare won and we had a (mostly) contested sprint even with the earlier crash, but with less riders they still seemed to run out of room & road cutting across lines and pushing each other around (and into barriers).

They have said they're looking closely at the sprints this year so the sprinters should've been more aware of slamming doors shut, cutting each other up and barging each other rather than just pure sprinting. Maybe this is the wake-up some of them need to clean up their act and clean up sprinting. The last few years it's got progressively worse, with sometimes almost dirty tactics being used, yet brushed off as 'racing incidents'. I've never been totally convinced about some of them being 'clean' racing incidents if I'm honest.

As i see it there are a few reasons for disqualification. 1) To keep other riders safe, 2) to highlight the severity of the situation and make sure everyone's aware of how serious deviating in a sprint can be, 3) to manage certain riders egos and make sure they understand they're not above the law, and 4) to allow for a sprint and points competition in the race that's more in line with what the french organisers wanted anyway. Some naturally more justified than others, but it's an understandable decision.
I'd like to think as they're 'looking closely' at sprints this year that it's mostly (2). But lets be honest, the UCI like to occasionally make examples of riders to prove and to show they're still 'in command' so it could equally be (3). I'd hate it to be (4).
 
I'd just like to add, I think Sagan not being in the rest of the Tour is a big blow. Not for the results, just for the fact he's Sagan and the media hype around him. Cycling needs characters like him!

EDIT: We missed something else important - Kittels win on stage 2 was the first Tour de France win by a Disc equipped road bike. :cool:

Thankfully Sagan wasn't riding one, otherwise Cav wouldn't have survived the injuries.
 
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It's a shame both Cav and Sagan are out of the race. I agree the elbow wasn't as bad as it first looked but Sagan's move to take Demare's wheel was too forceful. Not sure if he deserved to be DQed though.
 
Think the original decision was correct they should never have bumped it up to a DQ it's set a difficult precedent and robbed us of some excitement for the rest of the tour. If cav had bounced up and cruised over the line would they still have dq'd him?
 
Good point raised on CW about the 'UCI/Commissionaires decision being final and not open to appeal' so Dimension Data can stick an oar in but Bora can't.
 
Yup it's ridiculous that he couldn't appeal against it considering that his punishment was revised after a complain by another team. It's not like they only looked at the incident after Cav's team complained.
Kinda wish Sagan will tell TdF to do one from now on. Wonder how many viewers it cost them, I for one will not bother watching anymore this year.
 
I must agree Bora being unable to appeal is stupid especially since Dimension Data had some influence. However atleast Froome is back in his natural colour again, although its seems Aru is here to play and so is Simon Yates think he will be one of the the next GC contenders in years to come.
 
The reason why Sagans elbow goes out - it's forced out by Cavs left brake hood.

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For anyone interested - Frame by frame high quality video here

 
Has it been proven that Dimension Data had some influence? I'm not really sure what they gain from it.

On the ITV highlights show yesterday, the commentary stated that both Dimension Data and Bora were with the judges whilst the decision was being made, although I think Dimension Data lodged a complaint earlier on. So both teams had their chance to influence the judges
 
Was about 3.4km from the finish yesterday. Great place to watch main group still together but great to see everyone struggling up behind for a relatively flat stage. Will post up some pics when I'm home.

Not even seen the finish highlight yet but sounds like a good one with some of the main gc guys scratching around not wanting to jump first.
 
Kinda wish Sagan will tell TdF to do one from now on. Wonder how many viewers it cost them, I for one will not bother watching anymore this year.
LOL. If you're watching the Tour for Sagan then you're really watching cycling wrong :/

For anyone interested - Frame by frame high quality video here

With the advent of this footage (which I really hope the UCI had) then we can discount the elbow. It's caused by Cav's bars, blatantly. In that light then I think the DQ really does seem overly harsh?! :o

Trololol 'Forensic', but can't even spell Shoulder.
 
1 vote here for abolishing the fannies sprinting and having every stage finish on top of a mountain.
Sprinting is meant to occur indoors on big daft wooden tracks, aka, out of the way of the classy/beautiful roads of mainland Europe.

The one and only decent thing about the tour thus far is Kwiat riding up that mountain and visibly destroying the legs of everyone except about 8 dudes. Jersey flapping, death to all behind.
 
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