Pro Cycling Thread 2023

So a relatively flat day today after a rest day yesterday, should be one for the sprinters.

Mind you, given the absurd ascents up those mountains over the weekend, it wouldn't surprise me if the vampires came to visit over the rest day and you see Vingegaard drop a Tsar Bomba and does a Floyd Landis.

Quite frankly, if that happens, I'm switching off.

Where's your David Walsh's and Paul Kimmage's of this world calling out these alien performances in the mainstream media?
 
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GuruJockStrap said:
So a relatively flat day today after a rest day yesterday, should be one for the sprinters.

Mind you, given the absurd ascents up those mountains over the weekend, it wouldn't surprise me if the vampires came to visit over the rest day and you see Vingegaard drop a Tsar Bomba and does a Floyd Landis.

Quite frankly, if that happens, I'm switching off.

Where's your David Walsh's and Paul Kimmage's of this world calling out these alien performances in the mainstream media?
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This is what surprises me with the top two currently, but the wider teams of the top riders, the fact UAE have 3 of the top 7 and Landa who has fallen short year after year is up in fifth, if Jumbo didn't have so much bad luck this year they'd almost certainly have Kuss up there as well. Although as I've said previously what they're doing potentially isn't illegal currently, although I can't see how such a huge jump since 2020 and in such a short space of time is possible within the realms of good diet and better training methods.
 
It's just that they now eat more carbs, altitude training and do more Z2 riding.

Oh and don't forget about the aero socks!




And probably microdosing EPO.
 
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Junglist said:
It's just that they now eat more carbs, altitude training and do more Z2 riding.

Oh and don't forget about the aero socks!

And probably microdosing EPO.
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I think people massively downplay all the advances since the likes of Pantani.

The modern rider:

  • Has been training effectively since a very young age
  • They train much more effectively now at every age
  • Has a much better diet now - both their general diet and their pre, post and during calories / macros.
  • They now consume 120g+ an hour on the bike vs basically nothing - this is absolutely huge for both recovery and their performance in the race
  • Tactics and team work are now much more effective for getting the lead riders moving quickly
  • The bikes have got a country mile better. Aero and tyres being the big ones.
  • Clothing is now much more aero and they adopt a much more aero position
  • They recover post stage much better now. Massages, food, cryo treatments, spinning as soon as the race is over etc
  • They know exactly what effort they can sustain and for exactly how long based on power data allowing them to pace efforts much better
Whats frankly more astonishing is that with all these changes it took so long to beat the guys who didn't have all this but were doped up to their gills.

They may well still be doping but until one of the big boys are caught we won't know. I'm sure they are doing everything they can whilst sitting just inside the rules but there isn't a chance they are doping at anything like a serious rate. You also have to ask why so many guys suddenly beat the record. So many guys from different teams. I would suggest that its more likely that conditions on that day made it likely. The way the stage was raced. The pacing up the climb. The wind etc.

To my mind, if it came out that the top guys and the whole peleton were doping it would cripple the sport. So either the anti-doping agency is keeping up appearances or its not really an issue. I can't believe that in this day and age someone hasn't leaked something or someone hasn't ****** up and gone too hard with their PEDs and got caught.
 
My favourite sport is boxing. I do sit on the side of the argument that it's innocent until proven guilty but at the same time I have my suspicions that they're all on something it's just the idiots that mess up their cycles get caught. Victor Conte, who helped many athletes juice and evade detection, has a lot of interesting things to say on the subject.

It's also things like VADA/UKAD while they need to know where you are at all times there's some weird loophole where they can only visit between certain times. So if you're micro-dosing EPO or whatever designer juice there is, it has a half life of a few hours so by the time they could theoretically test, it should be out of your system. It's obviously a lot more complicated than that.

The drug detection labs are in a constant game of trying to keep up with the designer drugs but they're always a step behind. Though I know the IOC keep blood samples for ~8 years so when they have the ability to detect a new substance in the future historical people can still be popped.

Though, if they're all on something like I believe, then it's a level playing field and it's irrelevant.

Edit:

Funnily enough, Victor Conte actually released a video last night! Odd timing but makes sense with the Olympics around the corner.
 
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Junglist said:
Though, if they're all on something like I believe, then it's a level playing field and it's irrelevant.
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I have no doubt they are all pushing the envelope as much as they can in any way they can for sure. I just don't like the lazy argument that so many people at the moment are pushing. The old "its just more calories on the bike guys, wink wink..." like thats some weird insightful joke and they are 100% sure they are juiced up to their gills.

I would honestly be more suspicious if it wasn't so many of them who went faster than the old record all on a single day. Thats just unlikely as hell unless there was something about that day that made it possible. Why aren't they smashing records all over the place by miles otherwise?
 
What's the saying? History doesn't always repeat itself but it often rhymes.

I do believe some of the gaps being reduced are of course down to technological advancements as well as on the nutrition side of things but I'm also not naive enough to think it's all down to hard graft. There's big money involved so there's always going to be someone looking to gain and advantage and much like Conte says in that video. The organisers may sometimes be involved to cover it all up to avoid the bad look. Playing devils advocate, lets just say that a few of the top 10 are on the good stuff. If the UCI, IOC or any other sporting regulation found this out would it be a stretch to say they wouldn't look the other way to avoid bringing the sport back into the spotlight for the wrong reasons? I'm not so sure. I'm willing to bet they'd make an example of some lesser known pro but if Tadej, Jonas, Remco or MVDP had popped dirty and seeing they're pretty much the face of this TDF and all the negative attention it would bring... again.

I'll stick to innocent until proven guilty but I've watched enough boxing and athletics over the years to know that there is a very thin line between success and failure and some athletes are willing to do whatever it takes to get that extra 0.01% over their competitors.

As is stands right now I'm just going to enjoy the show and the insane level the whole group competes at. It's amazing to watch, juice or no juice. Though if it comes out in 5, 10 or 20 years that thet were walking pharmacies I'm not going to be shocked in the slightest.
 
Doesn't even look tired at the end.... Don't **** on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Edit - Maybe I'm being a bit salty cause I like Jonas (who is probably on the good stuff too) but it just looks so suspect. But he has wrapped up the Tour now and GG to him. Wonder if he fancies getting the Vuelta
 
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TheBrooder said:
I've recently recovered from another bout of covid and it ruined me...

Pogacar is unbelievable, it feels like we're watching a Marvel movie, he's that much better than the rest.
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Given how all his GC rivals all had injuries hampering their prep before the tour began and how Visma lost Kuss just before the tour, it shouldn't be surprising that Pog is so dominant.

It's a shame, turned into a tour similar to Max's domination of F1, hopefully the contenders all arrive in good shape next year.
 
Vingegaard has been saying that he isn't off form due to the injury and his power numbers do back that up to be fair. Seems strange though because that was a super serious accident and it was only 3 months ago.

Jumbo Visma have generally been a bit **** this year IMO and UAE have been absolutely on it. I didn't watch last year quite as closely but it felt like Pogacar was on his own a lot more last year and getting generally browbeaten and run into the ground by Jumbo Visma
 
fez said:
Vingegaard has been saying that he isn't off form due to the injury and his power numbers do back that up to be fair. Seems strange though because that was a super serious accident and it was only 3 months ago.

Jumbo Visma have generally been a bit **** this year IMO and UAE have been absolutely on it. I didn't watch last year quite as closely but it felt like Pogacar was on his own a lot more last year and getting generally browbeaten and run into the ground by Jumbo Visma
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Pog was injured early on the season last year which affected his build up to the tour, so pretty much the reverse situation this year and Vingegaard smoked Pog last year. It must hit performance not being able to train
 
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