Project managers

nero120 said:
This could also be why every UK government IT project ever started has run ridiculously over budget and often the spec is completely unfit for purpose. :)
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A PM is only the co-ordinator, he can only work with what is feedback to him from all the parties involved. Crap in crap out.

So if he has some little Dev with a chip on his shoulder unwilling to provide useful estimates then I can fully understand why lots of projects run over budget/schedule.
 
nero120 said:
Why would I bother, as has been said NUMEROUS times already, this is a RANT thread. Why is this so hard for people to grasp? Being that it is a RANT thread, I would expect anyone with half a brain to recognise this (clue: angry smiley as thread icon) and realise that I may not be providing all the details, so probably not the best basis to form an opinion of my competancy...
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If you're going to make wild accusations about PM's you really need some sort of detail for your argument to be seen as valid.

If I started a thread stating that I hated all developers as they can never appreciate the need to manage time and give me guesses on how long taks will take - would you expect all the replies to be yeah fair enough I agree? No, I'd get developers in there stating that what I was saying was rubbish and my experience clearly does not represent the general opinion.
 
GSXRMovistar said:
A PM is only the co-ordinator, he can only work with what is feedback to him from all the parties involved. Crap in crap out.

So if he has some little Dev with a chip on his shoulder unwilling to provide useful estimates then I can fully understand why lots of projects run over budget/schedule.
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Little devs with chips on their shoulders don't last very long. Crap PMs do. Go figure.
 
Basher said:
If you're going to make wild accusations about PM's you really need some sort of detail for your argument to be seen as valid.

If I started a thread stating that I hated all developers as they can never appreciate the need to manage time and give me guesses on how long taks will take - would you expect all the replies to be yeah fair enough I agree? No, I'd get developers in there stating that what I was saying was rubbish and my experience clearly does not represent the general opinion.
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This isn't about forming a general consensus of the quality of the average PM, it's a rant thread! I don't expect anyone who doesn't have the same opinion as me to see it as valid, and I'm not trying to convince them!

It seems to me that many people here have unnecessarily taken these comments personally, and to those people, if they are not PMs, I would have to wonder why.

How many rant threads do you see on OCUK? Do you feel the need to weigh out the pros and cons of the stated opinion in those threads?

So, repeat after me: "He's just ranting, he's just ranting, he's just ranting, he's just ranting, he's just ranting, he's just ranting, he's just ranting..."
 
Judging by this thread, PM's earn every penny for having to deal with IT 'tards who believe their work is an artform rather than simply a means of getting something done, to a certain specification, within a budget.

Much akin to IT support moaning that people don't understand PCs and go to them with petty problems - generally because people couldn't give a crap about how long you've been building computers, how 'any n00b' knows how to do something, how things are so 'obvious', they just want the thing on their desk to do what it's supposed to do so they can get on with their job :p
 
Rich_L said:
Judging by this thread, PM's earn every penny for having to deal with IT 'tards who believe their work is an artform rather than simply a means of getting something done, to a certain specification, within a budget.

Much akin to IT support moaning that people don't understand PCs and go to them with petty problems - generally because people couldn't give a crap about how long you've been building computers, how 'any n00b' knows how to do something, how things are so 'obvious', they just want the thing on their desk to do what it's supposed to do so they can get on with their job :p
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Spot on.
 
Rich_L said:
Judging by this thread, PM's earn every penny for having to deal with IT 'tards who believe their work is an artform rather than simply a means of getting something done, to a certain specification, within a budget.

Much akin to IT support moaning that people don't understand PCs and go to them with petty problems - generally because people couldn't give a crap about how long you've been building computers, how 'any n00b' knows how to do something, how things are so 'obvious', they just want the thing on their desk to do what it's supposed to do so they can get on with their job :p
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Not the same thing at all. Devs need good PMs, and crap ones do nothing but make our lives a misery. It's got nothing to do with arrogance or a lack of understanding, it's all about meeting your responsibilities and doing your job well, something that most PMs I have worked with know nothing about.
 
Basher said:
You seemed to have described yourself perfectly.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't make them uninformed.
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Are you really this ignorant or just doing it to amuse me?

You are uninformed because you know nothing about me or my situation. The only thing you know is that I had a rant, if you think this is enough information for you to make character assessments then please do go on, your making yourself look like the village idiot is quite amusing! :p
 
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