Project managers
- Thread starter nero120
- Start date
God you are stupid.
SharePoint architect: £62,500 (average over last 3 months)
Contracting rates go through the roof.
Sorry my mistake.
But don't call me stupid. You don't klnow enough about me or my siuation to call me stupid (sound familiar?)
I apologise, I'm just getting pretty tired of having to repeat myself to you because you seem determined to not read what I'm posting.
I didn't look at the correct job - one mistake.
I still stand by all my other comments.
If you don't agree with them, fine, but they are not misinformed.
Point still stands though, IT seems to breed a curious mixture of arrogance and social ineptness, so I suspect the reason PM's deal with their developers as if they were 8 year old children requiring continual pestering is that's a pretty good estimate of the (im)maturity level they are dealing with.
Unfortunately, someone has to interface between the adults world of hitting deadlines, financial targets and efficient resourcing, and the developers playpen.
At least this is the impression I get from a 'non-IT' professional role where things like giving accurate estimates and working to set budgets and deadlines is far from an outrageous request but rather an absolute necessity
Obviously you know nothing about me so any accusation you make against my competancy is irrelevant, but I suppose you are entitled to your opinions.
You seem to have taken this whole thing quite personally. You are a PM, right? I can't remember if you denied it earlier.
No, I am not a PM - but I do have to work with developers to get jobs done.
Soldato
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 9,378
Fellow PM's! Something for you to read:
The alternative guide to Project Management
1.It takes one woman nine months to have a baby. It cannot be done in one
month by impregnating nine women.
2.Nothing is impossible for the person who doesn't have to do it.
3.You can con a sucker into committing to an impossible deadline, but you
cannot con him into meeting it.
4.At the heart of every large project is a small project trying to get out.
5.The more desperate the situation the more optimistic the situatee.
6.A problem shared is a buck passed.
7.A change freeze is like the abominable snowman: it is a myth and would
anyway melt when heat is applied.
8.A user will tell you anything you ask, but nothing more.
9.Of several possible interpretations of a communication, the
leastconvenient is the correct one.
10.What you don't know hurts you
11.There's never enough time to do it right first time but there's always
enough time to go back and do it again.
12.The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of making
a date is forgotten.
13.I know that you believe that you understand what you think I said, but I
am not sure you realise that what you heard is not what I meant.
14.What is not on paper has not been said.
15.A little risk management saves a lot of fan cleaning.
16.If you can keep your head while all about you are losing theirs, you
haven't understood the plan.
17.If at first you don't succeed, remove all evidence you ever tried.
18.Feather and down are padding, changes and contingencies will be real
events.
19.There are no good project managers - only lucky ones.
20.The more you plan the luckier you get.
21.A project is one small step for the project sponsor, one giant leap for
the project manager.
22.Good project management is not so much knowing what to do and when, as
knowing what excuses to give and when.
23.If everything is going exactly to plan, something somewhere is going
massively wrong.
24.Everyone asks for a strong project manger - when they get them they
don't want them.
25.Overtime is a figment of the naïve project manager's imagination.
26.Quantitative project management is for predicting cost and schedule
overruns well in advance.
27.The sooner you begin coding the later you finish.
28.Metrics are learned men's excuses.
29.For a project manager overruns are as certain as death and taxes.
30.Some project finish on time in spite of project management
bestpractices.
31.Fast - cheap - good - you can have any two.
32.There is such a thing as an unrealistic timescale.
33.The project would not have been started if the truth had been told about
the cost and timescale.
34.A two-year project will take three years, a three year project will
never finish.
35.When the weight of the project paperwork equals the weight of the
project itself, the project can be considered complete.
36.A badly planned project will take three times longer than expected - a
well planned project only twice as long as expected.
37.Warning: dates in a calendar are closer than they appear to be.
38.Anything that can be changed will be changed until there is no time left
to change anything.
39.There is no such thing as scope creep, only scope gallop.
40.A project gets a year late one day at a time.
41.If you're 6 months late on a milestone due next week but really believe
you can make it, you're a project manager.
42.No project has ever finished on time, within budget, to requirement
43.Yours won't be the first to.
44.Activity is not achievement.
45.Managing IT people is like herding cats.
46.If you don't know how to do a task, start it, then ten people who know
less than you will tell you how to do it.
47.If you don't plan, it doesn't work. If you do plan, it doesn't work
either. Why plan!
48.The person who says it will take the longest and cost the most is the
only one with a clue how to do the job.
49.The sooner you get behind schedule, the more time you have to make it
up.
50.The nice thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete
surprise rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression.
51.Good control reveals problems early - which only means you'll have
longer to worry about them.
The alternative guide to Project Management
1.It takes one woman nine months to have a baby. It cannot be done in one
month by impregnating nine women.
2.Nothing is impossible for the person who doesn't have to do it.
3.You can con a sucker into committing to an impossible deadline, but you
cannot con him into meeting it.
4.At the heart of every large project is a small project trying to get out.
5.The more desperate the situation the more optimistic the situatee.
6.A problem shared is a buck passed.
7.A change freeze is like the abominable snowman: it is a myth and would
anyway melt when heat is applied.
8.A user will tell you anything you ask, but nothing more.
9.Of several possible interpretations of a communication, the
leastconvenient is the correct one.
10.What you don't know hurts you
11.There's never enough time to do it right first time but there's always
enough time to go back and do it again.
12.The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of making
a date is forgotten.
13.I know that you believe that you understand what you think I said, but I
am not sure you realise that what you heard is not what I meant.
14.What is not on paper has not been said.
15.A little risk management saves a lot of fan cleaning.
16.If you can keep your head while all about you are losing theirs, you
haven't understood the plan.
17.If at first you don't succeed, remove all evidence you ever tried.
18.Feather and down are padding, changes and contingencies will be real
events.
19.There are no good project managers - only lucky ones.
20.The more you plan the luckier you get.
21.A project is one small step for the project sponsor, one giant leap for
the project manager.
22.Good project management is not so much knowing what to do and when, as
knowing what excuses to give and when.
23.If everything is going exactly to plan, something somewhere is going
massively wrong.
24.Everyone asks for a strong project manger - when they get them they
don't want them.
25.Overtime is a figment of the naïve project manager's imagination.
26.Quantitative project management is for predicting cost and schedule
overruns well in advance.
27.The sooner you begin coding the later you finish.
28.Metrics are learned men's excuses.
29.For a project manager overruns are as certain as death and taxes.
30.Some project finish on time in spite of project management
bestpractices.
31.Fast - cheap - good - you can have any two.
32.There is such a thing as an unrealistic timescale.
33.The project would not have been started if the truth had been told about
the cost and timescale.
34.A two-year project will take three years, a three year project will
never finish.
35.When the weight of the project paperwork equals the weight of the
project itself, the project can be considered complete.
36.A badly planned project will take three times longer than expected - a
well planned project only twice as long as expected.
37.Warning: dates in a calendar are closer than they appear to be.
38.Anything that can be changed will be changed until there is no time left
to change anything.
39.There is no such thing as scope creep, only scope gallop.
40.A project gets a year late one day at a time.
41.If you're 6 months late on a milestone due next week but really believe
you can make it, you're a project manager.
42.No project has ever finished on time, within budget, to requirement
43.Yours won't be the first to.
44.Activity is not achievement.
45.Managing IT people is like herding cats.
46.If you don't know how to do a task, start it, then ten people who know
less than you will tell you how to do it.
47.If you don't plan, it doesn't work. If you do plan, it doesn't work
either. Why plan!
48.The person who says it will take the longest and cost the most is the
only one with a clue how to do the job.
49.The sooner you get behind schedule, the more time you have to make it
up.
50.The nice thing about not planning is that failure comes as a complete
surprise rather than being preceded by a period of worry and depression.
51.Good control reveals problems early - which only means you'll have
longer to worry about them.
At least this is the impression I get from a 'non-IT' professional role where things like giving accurate estimates and working to set budgets and deadlines is far from an outrageous request but rather an absolute necessity
In the industries I've worked in, I've never seen a dev who was unhelpful towards the project, though some are more pro active than others. It tends to be that devs manage the micro project that is their task set and communicate to the PM how long it will take and regular progress. It is the PMs job to make sure everyone has what they need to do the work and resources are booked in time. If the project fails in a professional organisation, it is rarely (if ever) because a dev had a chip on their shoulder, you just can't get away with it.
Ah I see. Out of interest, are you working on enterprise systems?
Kind of varies - we're a Systems Integrator for medium - large enterprises in the public and private sector so yeah can be anything from a small solution to a very large one!
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Nov 2002
- Posts
- 9,946
- Location
- London UK
Then why not answer some of the questions I posed earlier regarding your background to give this discussion some real context, as at the moment you are still coming across rather childlike bitching and moaning without giving any real detail/reason.You are uninformed because you know nothing about me or my situation. The only thing you know is that I had a rant, if you think this is enough information for you to make character assessments then please do go on, your making yourself look like the village idiot is quite amusing!
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Unfortunately we know enough about your attitude to make informed judgements on your character.
So do you work with more off the shelf products rather than bespoke stuff?
I found the public sector to be much worse than the private sector in terms of overall competance (devs, pms, bas), people just seemed to be able to do whatever they wanted! Much prefer where I am now (private sector), but we still have our gems!
Just because the average salary over the last 3 months is £x, doesn't mean you are getting it.
You sound like a junior who is new to the role and has to whinge about something.
Get over it fella
What in gods name are you talking about? Where did I say what I was getting? Basher said PMs earn more that MOSS architects, I disagreed and showed him evidence, to which he accepted.
I'm finding it pretty funny that the people criticising me are the ones not READING THE ******* THREAD!
So, perhaps you should get over it fella?
In the priv sect it's mostly off the shelf, and bespoke in the public. I completely agree that the pub sect boys are much harder to work with!
Permabanned
- Joined
- 3 Jul 2008
- Posts
- 3,762
- Location
- My fabulous ship
because the people that recruited them haven't got a clue... nor do they care because its government funded project so no big deal attitudes are common
Im really getting tired of the trolls in here trying to bait nero. Funny how they call him childish when they are the ones baiting. If he has had bad experiences with pm's and wants to rant - he's perfectly entitled to. This thread is for those that have had bad experiences with project managers, not to stereotype all pm's in existance otherwise I wouldnt even be in here.