Project: Two storey/part single storey side and rear extensions

[roccles]

I Feel for you, some family members are going through something very similar, although they have just been left with a unsafe/unfinished shell that needs to be demolished. Thousands spent on legal fees to try and get something back from the builder but have got no where while he is able to carry on with any repercussions.

Good luck with the rest of the project I hope you are able to move back soon.

 

[itsallaboutyou]

We need him (kind of) no other builder would walk in this late and finish with any type of warranty (and he knows this).

The building inspector has conducted an inspection, expressing overall satisfaction. However, there is a need for photographic evidence regarding certain items, such as insulation. Additionally, our head-height on the staircase is out by 5mm as we dont have the 2m head height on the 3rd step in. Given the minimal deviation and its low impact, I conveyed my acceptance of this discrepancy.

He advised not for us to move in until complete . The moment we move in we have 8 for building sign off, otherwise it will go back to the local authorities .




We have already started doing this; i can't release anything here as we will likely be taking this further so it does not happen to others but some of the conversations are so comical listening to them back. Listening back, it becomes apparent that there are numerous contradictions and instances where statements directly oppose each other. In the heat of the moment when he is screaming etc, these discrepancies might not be immediately apparent, but upon review, it's evident that conflicting statements have been made.

Have you had periodic inspections by a building inspector? If so - they should have evidence of insulation / floor joists / etc…

Some builders use private companies now - who can certify on behalf of the local authority.

We’ve just had our second loft conversion done on the new house and the inspectors were never away!!

Just had full rewire signed off (after nearly 15 months) by the electrician - despite me doing most of the cabling for him! Just waiting for last fire doors to be fitted and then hopefully final sign off.

Our project was minuscule in comparison to yours.

Seems like you’ve both got your heads screwed on with regards to what you can realistically achieve. Just keep it all documented - really hope it’s all sorted soon!

 

[kai]

I Feel for you, some family members are going through something very similar, although they have just been left with a unsafe/unfinished shell that needs to be demolished. Thousands spent on legal fees to try and get something back from the builder but have got no where while he is able to carry on with any repercussions.

Good luck with the rest of the project I hope you are able to move back soon.

I can't go into too much details, naturally but i want to avoid legal as you say thousands spent with no repercussions. My wife was a former journalist for leading newspapers and media so we have a lot of contacts in the industry we could call in favours. We have let it slip a few times to the contractors in the hope something finds his way back to the developer organically.

Have you had periodic inspections by a building inspector? If so - they should have evidence of insulation / floor joists / etc…

Some builders use private companies now - who can certify on behalf of the local authority.

We use a private company; and did not go through the local authority. He has been out 6 times in 9 months; and we have site reports. He is happy' but for some parts need to see evidence (luckly i have this as i have taken hundreds of photo's along the way) but the responsbility lies with the developer to be providing this.

 

[kai]

We had a discussion with the developer this morning, and he seems perplexed about why we can't move in without front doors (all other clients have no issue with this). Despite emphasising the safety concerns, especially with a 2-year-old in the house, and the fact that our home insurance does not cover such situations, he is eager for us to occupy. Currently, his building insurance is liable for any issues. We know as soon as we move in work will grind to a halt.

On a positive note, we've managed to start moving things back into the kitchen. My wife, who had been hapring on forever for an open larder for quite some time, is somewhat pleased and can finally see small glimers of an end in sight.

This room is being painted today; it's just a small playroom for our daughter but i had someone make a window seat toy box. Should look really nice once its all painted in.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I mean seriously what is the hold up with the front door
Is it ready to be fitted on arrival or are there other issues surrounding this?

I guess hes kind of angling with the once they move it I can start pushing for final payment and can delay things to get money from other jobs (ie divert labour)
Where yours is, we need to get the big ticket items sorted before we risk telling him to foxtrot oscar?

 

[kai]

I mean seriously what is the hold up with the front door
Is it ready to be fitted on arrival or are there other issues surrounding this?

I guess hes kind of angling with the once they move it I can start pushing for final payment and can delay things to get money from other jobs (ie divert labour)
Where yours is, we need to get the big ticket items sorted before we risk telling him to foxtrot oscar?

He has all the excuses under the sun. He is now going let us know tommorow an update on the front door (we need x2) and the glass for the staircase. I know for a fact he has not ordered them because he has not even measured.

I think it's a funds issue on his side and delay tactics. We have paid him for these items; but from what i can gather he uses money from other jobs to cover etc ( i suspect this is normal) and i know he does not have a huge amount of work at the moment.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

He has all the excuses under the sun. He is now going let us know tommorow an update on the front door (we need x2) and the glass for the staircase. I know for a fact he has not ordered them because he has not even measured.

I think it's a funds issue on his side and delay tactics. We have paid him for these items; but from what i can gather he uses money from other jobs to cover etc ( i suspect this is normal) and i know he does not have a huge amount of work at the moment.

Yeah sounds very much like hes outta money.
I used to be in construction supply and failed companies were often in this position (also sounds like what happened to the other guy who posted a few above).
Failed ones would often be running at a loss, playing pass the parcel with costs and orders etc. Typically either not enough base profit or my suspicion was regularly the owner taking too high a salary.
Eventually the parcel stops and the Ltd company folds. At that point those owed money, including those who had paid deposits etc lost out. The "owner" moved on and started again.

I only asked about doors since if you were at the point you wanted to move in unless they are completely odd sizes you can pick up cheap and simple ones very quickly and cheaply, or sometimes good doors failed for a reason. Such as over / under size etc
If it was the main thing holding me back I would probably go that way, just to get in and mvoe forwards but recognise you have numerous things your trying to balance!

 

[dlockers]

He has all the excuses under the sun. He is now going let us know tommorow an update on the front door (we need x2) and the glass for the staircase. I know for a fact he has not ordered them because he has not even measured.

I think it's a funds issue on his side and delay tactics. We have paid him for these items; but from what i can gather he uses money from other jobs to cover etc ( i suspect this is normal) and i know he does not have a huge amount of work at the moment.

The doors are probably on account tho aren't they? And cost price is presumably super low.

 

[Buffman]

The door thing seems mad, does sound like cash flow issues in the company.

Has he plastered door frames? Normally youd only want to board up to the reveal and plaster after the door is put in else plaster could crack around it as you're fitting door.

 

[kai]

The doors are probably on account tho aren't they? And cost price is presumably super low.

Not sure what you mean; but i assume he is buying from supplier whereby he has an account and 30/60 day invoice? For us to go buy 2 composite doors in the style we have given in the quote is over £1K each.

The door thing seems mad, does sound like cash flow issues in the company.

Has he plastered door frames? Normally youd only want to board up to the reveal and plaster after the door is put in else plaster could crack around it as you're fitting door.

It appears this way; and the door frames - yes have been plastered even freshly painted (he is all over the place and no methodical way of working)

So apparently this is SAFE for my 2 year and he sees no reason why we can't move in!

 

[Itchytrigg]

Not sure what you mean; but i assume he is buying from supplier whereby he has an account and 30/60 day invoice? For us to go buy 2 composite doors in the style we have given in the quote is over £1K each.


It appears this way; and the door frames - yes have been plastered even freshly painted (he is all over the place and no methodical way of working)

So apparently this is SAFE for my 2 year and he sees no reason why we can't move in!

The blue paper is a known deterrent for toddlers, they’ll steer well clear.

Been following your thread for a while now and it’s frankly shocking behaviour! It has however added some details for my bs metre for when I need to engage with trades soon, so thanks for sharing and I hope you get this over the line and behind you soon.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

As said before though
That can be made safe really easily, any half decent DIYer could make that safe. Assuming you have safety glass going in is it also anti shatter or is it going to do the normal safety glass thing of breaking into safe chunks.
As such what would you do should it break in future?

And again on doors you can get some very cheap low quality doors that would make you safe.

I get your at the point of why should you, I am just taking my personal position that if that was what it would take for me to be able to get back in I would just do it now.

 

[dlockers]

Not sure what you mean; but i assume he is buying from supplier whereby he has an account and 30/60 day invoice? For us to go buy 2 composite doors in the style we have given in the quote is over £1K each.

I mean, I wouldn't expect it to be a cost issue on his side given he wouldn't be paying real money anyway.

 

[kai]

As said before though
That can be made safe really easily, any half decent DIYer could make that safe. Assuming you have safety glass going in is it also anti shatter or is it going to do the normal safety glass thing of breaking into safe chunks.
As such what would you do should it break in future?

And again on doors you can get some very cheap low quality doors that would make you safe.

I get your at the point of why should you, I am just taking my personal position that if that was what it would take for me to be able to get back in I would just do it now.

I get that but the issue is i have already paid him for these items, this is the fustrasting part. I can make it safe' no doubt but it's more money again on top of putting everything right for the long term.

 

[kai]

We just had a 40 minute discussion; aka argument. Just kept turning into a blame game and how many "extra's" we have had. "I do not understand, i have had a bespoke house! i should not be asking when we can move in" LOL!!!

The features in question are not extras; they are all specified in the original quote. He became very angry when I mentioned that we're having an independent snagging assessment. He insisted that he would outright refuse to address any item listed on the snagging report. According to him, he will only consider the work complete when he is satisfied, and once that happens, he intends to conclude his involvement and not to contact him.

He also expressed considerable frustration with me for making him appear foolish by contacting the builder inspector without his knowledge. Consequently, he declared that he would no longer handle any matters with the building inspector, leaving it entirely up to me. Essentially, he reacted by throwing a tantrum and disengaging from the situation.

Regardless, he insists that he will complete the project in two weeks, though we are skeptical of this timeline. Additionally, he mentioned reevaluating budgets, claiming that the funds allocated have been comsumed by "extras" leave no room for the bathroom, yet he cant provide any figures only give examples that are on the quote.. It appears the exterior finishes may also remain incomplete. Furthermore, he issued a warning, stating that if we engage any of his trades for work on the house without full payment and a finalized contract, he will promptly terminate their services or sever all business ties.

 

[964rs]

I do get the impression that the spec you think you have a contract for is very different than the spec he thinks he gave you a contract for.

Unless every item was costed out on your spec then it is very much open to interpretation on what is considered extras and what is not.

 

[kai]

I do get the impression that the spec you think you have a contract for is very different than the spec he thinks he gave you a contract for.

Unless every item was costed out on your spec then it is very much open to interpretation on what is considered extras and what is not.

Yes and no! I get the quote is open to interpretation as I put it together and he reviewed: added/removed and signed. However the spec is hard to deny when it’s listed on the quote in detail.

For example one of many. The quote:

“Flooring throughout entire downstairs – LVT to match existing living room: Laid and fitted entire downstairs. 36 m2 to be utilized from existing living room.”

I also provided in the quote the exact floor; websites and prices (at the time) per sqm2 that stocked it.

One of the “extras” is laying floor in the small downstairs toilet. My argument is the quote states throughout “entire” downstairs.

 

[gingergundog]

Yes and no! I get the quote is open to interpretation as I put it together and he reviewed: added/removed and signed. However the spec is hard to deny when it’s listed on the quote in detail.

For example one of many. The quote:

“Flooring throughout entire downstairs – LVT to match existing living room: Laid and fitted entire downstairs. 36 m2 to be utilized from existing living room.”

I also provided in the quote the exact floor; websites and prices (at the time) per sqm2 that stocked it.

One of the “extras” is laying floor in the small downstairs toilet. My argument is the quote states throughout “entire” downstairs.

Do you have any other examples?

 

[kai]

Do you have any other examples?

Ok! I am not going to go into detail on all of them as there are so many examples but here is a few trivial ones that are supposedly going on this bill on a fixed price project.

Lighting: "New spot lights and adequate sockets in each new room, landing including bathrooms – the kitchen Island is to include 3 over hanging pendants, Master bedroom to include large pendant. We (the customer) are responsible for the purchase of all pendants. All spots and sockets to be included in the quote including fitting".

These are also the words added by the developer to the quote:
" All carpentry, plumbing, electrical, plastering included"

Apparently we have had extra spot-lights and sockets way over what was planned. We left 95% of this up to the discretion of the electirican; on what he felt was right.

Decorate: "The entire house interior is to be painted, all rooms to be finished in white with white satin or gloss finishes.

Another extra's he is only painting walls that have been "touched" by the work. So for example; two walls are new in one of the bedrooms. The entire floor has been replaced and new skirting and architrave are only yet the arugment is only the newly plastered walls will be covered.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

At the end of the day (IMO from doing this to some extent in the commercial world) using words like adequate is just opening up dispute.
You would think it really shouldnt matter, and in reality the difference in cost would be truly negligable but the reality is views can vary wildly.

I mean the spot lights, unless its particularly difficult to access then the difference in cutting and wiring 6 as opposed to 4 will be tiny.
Same with sockets unless yoru not going to go with modern levels of sockets and think one single per room is adequate.
Again an electrician is going to know the modern norm. (Which to me is 2x doubles per normal size room, 1 up and down on hall/landing, probably 4 doubles in a normal sized kitchen, etc)

I cannot see that the painting thing he would have a hope in court. Same with the flooring.

Surely the developer would have seen the first fix in regards electrics and should have commented at that point as to why the spark was adding "too many positions for sockets etc"