Questions - Diesel engine and transmission / gearbox reliability circa 2014-2019 -BMW - Mercedes - Audi ( on small hatchback or coupe models)

[DJMK4]

Merc, BMW and Audi use a zf gearbox, very reliable, however don't believe the sealed for life gumph the dealer puts out. Transmission service every few years (new fluid and filter) works wonders.

None really produce reliable diesel's that won't cost you a packet when they go wrong and they will I can assure you.

However the BMW 3.0d is probably one of the best.

If you want a smaller engine then the 2.0 TDI in the Audi is the cheaper of the 3 to run and repair costs will be much lower (as the 2.0 is fitted in everything vag)

The BMW 2.0d needs to be avoided

I have no comments on the Merc om654 in terms of reliability

I did a transmission gearbox oil change on the e82 120d i own now but now but it's the clutch thats not feeling right atm.

Audi I'd probably want to still do oil/filter changed changes 7-9k, and back to timing belts and water pump intervals

With my previous 320d series I bought it on 67k and it died on 169k that's a good 100k miles out a a car. Which isn't bad.

I will continue having a think

 

[MrRockliffe]

Merc, BMW and Audi use a zf gearbox

I think Merc use their own 7/9 speed multi clutch boxes.

Audi use a mix of ZF and DCT

BMW use a mix of ZF, DCT and Aisin


Each will have different service requirements. The ZF 8 speed will be fine for 70-80k. It’s a very hardy box. A DCT I’d have done much more regularly.

 

[DJMK4]

N20 engines in BMW then seem to be agressivly worse in terms of timing chains. I have spotted a few on auto trader with 50-70k miles saying timing chain replaced.

Looks like a lot more of a earlier than the n47 timing chains used to fail ?

 

[Nasher]

Timing chain issues isn't a good sign but seems to plague the German cars specifically. Why can't they get it right.

 

[Scythe]

N20 engines in BMW then seem to be agressivly worse in terms of timing chains. I have spotted a few on auto trader with 50-70k miles saying timing chain replaced.

Looks like a lot more of a earlier than the n47 timing chains used to fail ?

All depends on how they are looked after - apparently the key to preventing chain stretch is regular (~10k miles) oil changes to reduced oil channels blocking, whilst the F series (2012/13 on) has the replacement chain kit which is more durable (but still susceptible if oil changes aren't done early).

My F30 320D is going strong at 186k (bought at 7k), but looking to change as it's getting a bit tired (not engine related). I have been doing oil and filter every 10k from about 50k miles, with air and fuel filter changes every other oil change.

 

[DJMK4]

All depends on how they are looked after - apparently the key to preventing chain stretch is regular (~10k miles) oil changes to reduced oil channels blocking, whilst the F series (2012/13 on) has the replacement chain kit which is more durable (but still susceptible if oil changes aren't done early).

My F30 320D is going strong at 186k (bought at 7k), but looking to change as it's getting a bit tired (not engine related). I have been doing oil and filter every 10k from about 50k miles, with air and fuel filter changes every other oil change.

Yep I know

Iv owned 2 x BMWs

BMW 320d 2006 E90
BMW 120d 2010 E82

Iv always serviced the oil and oil filter after 7-8k miles . I think there has only been one time where I let it slip to 10k before it was changed


Even if I wasn't a BMW owner id still stick to under 10k oil and filter servicing

 

[DJMK4]

Hi all.

Bit of a bump again as I'm still thinking about next car.

As I have not had a VAG car in a long time (looking at Audi) .. is correct in saying cam belts and water pump need replacing still after 50-60k on the clock ? If I was to go down the route of buying one I would usually buy something that's had the cambelt and water pump done on 60k ish miles , but I'd have to change again at around 110-120kish?

Are you looking about £500 for this to be done these days ?

Iv got a to weigh up this or continue with BMW and the possibility of timing chain replacement and clutch/ transmission issues . I'm looking at a lot of BMW adverts which mention timing chain replacements which is scaring me abit

 

[DJMK4]

Started searching more recently now, autotrader etc,


Looking at some A5's

found one - (2.0TDi S-line) i think the prices i seem to be getting for say a 65-70k mileage car (2014) sline for instance is around £9-10k although some of them havnt had things like cambelt and waterpump done , some of them have . Tried one place and said he wouldnt budge on price on something that hasnt had the cambelt and waterpump done.

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Another question, usually i try and stick with trade places (for security and assurance, and if they offer it warrenty)

How many of you guys have delved in to private sales? or steered clear of them and stuck with trade only.

 

[Nasher]

If you want something that's not going to break, buy a Lexus tbh.

 

[Cristian]

Started searching more recently now, autotrader etc,


Looking at some A5's

found one - (2.0TDi S-line) i think the prices i seem to be getting for say a 65-70k mileage car (2014) sline for instance is around £9-10k although some of them havnt had things like cambelt and waterpump done , some of them have . Tried one place and said he wouldnt budge on price on something that hasnt had the cambelt and waterpump done.

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Another question, usually i try and stick with trade places (for security and assurance, and if they offer it warrenty)

How many of you guys have delved in to private sales? or steered clear of them and stuck with trade only.

I'm speaking as a S4 B8 owner that has the facelift MMI 3G plus navigation retrofitted.
I would strongly advise against spending that kind of money on an Audi B8 (even the facelift B8.5). It's a heavy, rigid, old platform that comes with lots of things that will go wrong (especially on an S line model with large alloys on lovely UK roads). On mine I've had to do:

Ball joints, control arms, upper control arms (a pig of a job due to the lovely pinch bolt corroding), wheel bearings, drop links, all door locking actuators replaced, 4x adaptive suspension shocks etc etc.
Avoid the DSG like the plague, they are all guaranteed to fail, it's only a matter of how badly and when. I've done the majority of work myself and somehow justified the hassle of driving around in a reasonably capable 333 kW car. But for something boring like a 2.0 tdi... hell no!

I've had a friend ask me what he can get for 10k, my answer was:
Skoda Octavia MK3 facelift
I30 1.4 turbo (2017 onwards)
Kia cee'd 1.4 turbo (2017 onwards)

Personally I've bought my last 3 cars privately. Do your checks, maybe pay for an AA RAC check if less confident and save yourself a good 1.5-2k in the process. There are very few instances when the trade warranty is worth much, unless there's a relatively obvious catastrophic failure which a check would have highlighted anyway.

 

[DJMK4]

From what I have been reading it's been preferencial to go for some audis over the Skoda

I'm not a fan of Skoda so probably out of the question . Or lexus

When you say dsg you mean gearbox ? It can't be as bad as the BMW gearboxes I have had in the past 2 cars. I have had a quick sit and go in an a4 before not an a5 I felt it was a lot smoother than the current and past BMW gearboxs I have used


With the rac / aa checks do they do code reading checks ?

I'm not sure if id go private yet as I may part ex and may chuck down 3-4k deposit and maybe £1-2k on 0% card rest on finance with overpay to clear within 6 months

I don't think anyone would convince me to go for anything else out of the BMW, Audi , VW group

Merc is another option but I found in prefer the interior dash etc on Audi's


If you go via a trader,.how often these days do they have wiggle room on the price If things like cambelt and water pump have not been done ? Iv not owned a car with cambelt or waterpump In years .

Would they be likely to drop the price or include the service as part of the deal ? Rather than you having to then absorb the cost yourself ?

 

[[TW]Fox]

I don't think anyone would convince me to go for anything else out of the BMW, Audi

Why are you so set on one of these particular brands though? What is it about them that means you won't consider anything else? As you can see from the example you've posted you really are not finding particularly good cars by looking for these two manufacturers only. That A5 might be a 2013 car but it might as well be a 2007 car because that is when they first appeared. It'll feel quite old inside.

Not sure what you mean about the gearbox though, BMW don't make gearboxes and various Audi cars use the same gearbox. The dual clutch gearbox found in Audi and VW cars has some benefits but smoothness over the traditional automatic you'll find in some BMW and Audi cars is not one of those.

What about a Seat? You'll get a newer, lower mileage and better specification car for your £10k than you will in an Audi. This should hopefully mean it'll be more reliable and less at the point where half of it needs replacing.

 

[Kenai]

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Done 10,000 miles since 2018, diesels famously love barely being driven, so I'm sure that's not a DPF bill just waiting to happen. 5 services since 2013 with the dealer seemingly avoiding claiming FSH, suggests it's probably missed a service somewhere and it's Euro 5 so becomes a pita to take anywhere that has a clean air policy. And it's still £10,000 for an 11 year old 2.0 diesel one.

Used car market really is depressing still.

 

[jpaul]

I would strongly advise against spending that kind of money on an Audi B8 (even the facelift B8.5). It's a heavy, rigid, old platform that comes with lots of things that will go wrong (especially on an S line model with large alloys on lovely UK roads). On mine I've had to do:

suspension wear - I have similarly discarded S line for the same reason , do you suspect same problem with equivalent Bmw M suspension&big-wheels ?
DSG - is your B8 a manual then ?

 

[DJMK4]

Iv got suspension knocking on my current 120d m sport. starting around 95k . I'm sure I had it on my old 3 series at 100k

The used market is a little depressing yes. But what's the alternative..I don't think I'd go for an different make other than what's been specified.

Has anyone taken on any purchases which are cat n - like door need replacing ? Seen an a5 in birmingham on 50ish k miles grey 2017 but private seller.


Or auctions to bring the price down abit ?

Usually I wouldn't mind traders but like with everything at the moment in the current climate people are trying to profiteer on inflated prices

 

[Kenai]

Has anyone taken on any purchases which are cat n - like door need replacing ? Seen an a5 in birmingham on 50ish k miles grey 2017 but private seller.

If you're considering buying a Cat N car from Birmingham it's safe to say you definitely need to either up your budget or lower your expectations.

Usually I wouldn't mind traders but like with everything at the moment in the current climate people are trying to profiteer on inflated prices

I'm not sure there's much profiteering happening right now, if anything where things have dropped a bit a lot of dealers are probably still sat on stock they've got very little margin in that they took on at the peak.

 

[Armageus]

Another question, usually i try and stick with trade places (for security and assurance, and if they offer it warrenty)

How many of you guys have delved in to private sales? or steered clear of them and stuck with trade only.

At the price range you're looking at them whatever warranty you get from a "dealer" is going to be worth very little. You'll be relying on your consumer rights to get any major issues fixed or just reject the car.

Arguably you'll probably get a better car privately, as most people with cars that they know have issues try to chop them in as part ex or webuyanycar, just depends how risk averse you are

 

[[TW]Fox]

But what's the alternative..

The alternative is to pick a car that your available budget offers a good selection of well maintained, good condition examples to choose from and not insurance write offs and cars with missing service history.

 

[Cristian]

suspension wear - I have similarly discarded S line for the same reason , do you suspect same problem with equivalent Bmw M suspension&big-wheels ?
DSG - is your B8 a manual then ?

Up to a point, yes. But worse on the Audi. I've had an e92 M sport with factory fitted 19 and Runflats (which quite frankly should not have been road legal, that's how bad it was). I changed the shocks but the suspension was fine, only did the lower control arms as an upgrade (unlike the Audi where the ball joints and upper control arms are guaranteed failures together with the wheel bearings).

DSG - Dual shift gearbox, it's an automatic with the strongest DSG ever made, the DL501. Let's just say it it was a nightmare until I got it sorted. Avoid like the plague. All A3, A4 and A5 automatics of that are are DSG and will be a world of trouble for which you need to budget a good 2-3k to get sorted at some point. By contrast the BMW ZF units are very reliable, both the old ZF6 and the F series ZF8.

That A5 might be a 2013 car but it might as well be a 2007 car because that is when they first appeared. It'll feel quite old inside.

I would say yes and no. The 2007 car with old MMI 2G, red climate panel, old steering wheel and old shifter does look incredibly dated. The MMI 2G is like worse version of CCC from BMW. The 2012 B8.5 facelift brings a modern gear stick, white and high resolution climate panel, nice steering wheel and most importantly (if specced) a MMI 3G plus navigation. This can stream bluetooth, has decent screen resolution and is the equivalent of a CIC with combox. Still old but a massive step ahead compared to the pre facelift. Build quality on the B8 and B8.5 is miles ahead of the F30, having had both the F30 looks a little bit more modern vs b8.5 but it's a matter of taste. The audi feels made of granite by comparison vs the F30 though.

Agree with the Seat, Skoda or something korean (the 2017 onwards i30 is very well built inside, easily up to Golf MK7 quality).

 

[jpaul]

Interesting to know rate of replacement of suspension parts since the onset of the low profile tyre fad - can't really beat a tyre as a first level of shock absorption, is there no way back ;
yes roads don't help either, if indeed they've genuinely got worse, perhaps helped by the low profiles.

the 2017 onwards i30 is very well built inside

I thought the jury was still out on the gdi engines (pre-chamber or something) and carbon build up unless you stuck with good quality fuels.


In terms of private versus garage purchase , would be very tempting to put a garage car immediately through an MOT.