Race report: 'UK not deliberately rigged against ethnic minorities'

[VincentHanna]

No, both my sources are about the UK...

 

[FoxEye]

Does anyone want to volunteer a suggestion for the "repeated negative interactions" black people have with UK government institutions, btw?

I'm curious as to what shape these repeated negative interactions take. And why white people aren't having the same negative interactions.

I assume examples will be forthcoming of racism in the NHS, etc?

Actual examples, vs insinuation. Bonus points if you don't have to go back to the 60s to find some.

 

[Caracus2k]

No, both my sources are about the UK...

I did specifically mention some of the reports from the US because I think their given names more strongly correlate to socio-economic class vs the UK. Hence why I think the studies there are flawed

Given that the study 'A test for racial discrimination in recruitment practice in British cities' seems to indicate a similar penalty for all non white groups (but not clearly a difference between them) and given that we know that Indians and Chinese people out earn Whites in the UK then any remaining effect at this stage of recruitment would appear to be consistent with in group preference rather than the "white supremacy" bogeyman or some variation thereof.

I would not object to hiring processes that removed the applicant name at this stage to eliminate such discrepancies.

I don't doubt that there is some 'in group preference' as I think its fairly universal in all humans I just object to this being lumped in as "white supremacy" or "systemic racism" when we don't tend to use analogous phrases for other ethnic groups when they may be exercising their in group preference.

I would like to see a study done for the various non white groups to track their progression whilst entering and moving within the public sector and larger corporate organisations to follow up on these studies.

Much like the situation is now with women in some fields I suspect that non white people would be found to be advantaged by the deliberate and systemic processes put in place by such organisations via the top down pressure to increase representation and applications and mentoring specifically targeting non males and non whites.

 

[Caracus2k]

Does anyone want to volunteer a suggestion for the "repeated negative interactions" black people have with UK government institutions, btw?

I'm curious as to what shape these repeated negative interactions take. And why white people aren't having the same negative interactions.

I assume examples will be forthcoming of racism in the NHS, etc?

Actual examples, vs insinuation. Bonus points if you don't have to go back to the 60s to find some.

It's going to be mostly the police.

It's driven by the massively disproportionate amount of crime committed by predominantly younger black males vs other groups.

A more stark discrepancy is found between men in general and women and their interactions with the police but few attribute this to sexism.. People generally understand that the discrepancy is driven by a difference in subject behaviour and not external discrimination.

 

[a1ex2001]

Does anyone want to volunteer a suggestion for the "repeated negative interactions" black people have with UK government institutions, btw?

I'm curious as to what shape these repeated negative interactions take. And why white people aren't having the same negative interactions.

I assume examples will be forthcoming of racism in the NHS, etc?

Actual examples, vs insinuation. Bonus points if you don't have to go back to the 60s to find some.

Young black men with the police in London, plenty of perfectly Innocent young lads stopped and searched without reason.

PS I was quoting a radio 4 interview go and listen if you are so bothered about it, but you don’t really care because you have already made your mind up. Even if the incidents are only perceived to be negative and are not race related then that will still impact someone’s trust of government messages.

 

[FoxEye]

Even if the incidents are only perceived to be negative and are not race related then that will still impact someone’s trust of government messages.

But these negative interactions between black people and govt institutions are/were given as examples of systemic racism.

So if it's only perceived to be negative, or if it really is negative but nothing to do with race, it's *still* going to be volunteered as evidence that the UK has systemic racism issues.

Indeed, general lack of trust between black people and govt is in and of itself used to demonstrate/claim racism.

So you literally cannot win. Everything is racism.

 

[a1ex2001]

But these negative interactions between black people and govt institutions are/were given as examples of systemic racism.

So if it's only perceived to be negative, or if it really is negative but nothing to do with race, it's *still* going to be volunteered as evidence that the UK has systemic racism issues.

Indeed, general lack of trust between black people and govt is in and of itself used to demonstrate/claim racism.

So you literally cannot win. Everything is racism.

Who gave them as examples of systemic racism? I think the post in question uses them to explain poor vaccine take up in certain communities unless I missed another post?

 

[danlightbulb]

Young black men with the police in London, plenty of perfectly Innocent young lads stopped and searched without reason.

There is a reason, its a check to ensure they are not committing crime, carrying knives etc.

I would expect the same stop and search to be used on a white gang too of a certain 'look'.

If the black guy (or white guy) is wearing a suit he is not likely to be searched, if he is wearing a tracksuit and hoodie and walking down the road swaggering like Elvis then he is, and should be in my opinion.

This isnt racism its common sense crime prevention.

I dont understand this view some people have that every negative experience has to be racism. A black guy gets stopped by the police (even though he was looking suspicious), it has to be racism. A black woman cant get dole money, its racism. A black guy repeatedly cant get a job, it has to be racism.

It is an easy get out to make that assumption, its far harder to examine the other factors involved.

Its also easy to get up on your high horse screaming racism at every opportunity and shouting down anyone who tries to point out the common sense. There are two politicians ill name who are terrible for this. One is Diane Abbot who is black, the other is Jess Philips who is white. Both of them spout their rhetoric and do not listen to reason.

 

[Tony Edwards]

There is a reason, its a check to ensure they are not committing crime, carrying knives etc.

I would expect the same stop and search to be used on a white gang too of a certain 'look'.

If the black guy (or white guy) is wearing a suit he is not likely to be searched, if he is wearing a tracksuit and hoodie and walking down the road swaggering like Elvis then he is, and should be in my opinion.

This isnt racism its common sense crime prevention.

Have you heard the term racial stereotyping?

 

[Deleted User 234324]

Have you heard the term racial stereotyping?

There we go fixed for you, its not racial its just plain old fashioned stereotyping and its often required when it comes to crime prevention.

Or better yet, lets scrap the stereotyping and just call it suspicion, if they suspect your upto no good, then your going to get stopped and searched and I bet most of the time, they find something incriminating.

 

[danlightbulb]

There we go fixed for you, its not racial its just plain old fashioned stereotyping and its often required when it comes to crime prevention.

Spot on.

There is no racism here, i expect the police to use their experience to target potentials for crime. If youre a black guy out at night in a gang lurking around this includes you. If youre a white guy out at night lurking around, this includes you. If youre an Irish gypsy looking scruffy and appearinh to be scouting a neighbourhood, this includes you. If youre a bunch of young chaps in a nice car, this includes you. There is no discrimination here.

 

[hurfdurf]

Spot on.

There is no racism here, i expect the police to use their experience to target potentials for crime. If youre a black guy out at night in a gang lurking around this includes you. If youre a white guy out at night lurking around, this includes you. If youre an Irish gypsy looking scruffy and appearinh to be scouting a neighbourhood, this includes you. If youre a bunch of young chaps in a nice car, this includes you. There is no discrimination here.

Only there is, because black people are getting stopped more than white... or do you think being black is in and of itself suspicious?

Why aren’t white road men being stopped equally as much?

 

[Tony Edwards]

Spot on.

There is no racism here, i expect the police to use their experience to target potentials for crime. If youre a black guy out at night in a gang lurking around this includes you. If youre a white guy out at night lurking around, this includes you. If youre an Irish gypsy looking scruffy and appearinh to be scouting a neighbourhood, this includes you. If youre a bunch of young chaps in a nice car, this includes you. There is no discrimination here.

That sounds like the beginning of a terrible racist joke. Theres a white guy and an Irish gypsy looking scruffy, then comes along a Usain Bolt in his track suit. Which one deserves to gets stopped and searched first?

 

[lemonkettaz]

Sometimes you have to profile. Like why don't some people understand this...

If the target set has certain patterns of behaviour, in and around certain locations, wearing certain clothing, of a certain colour.... you have to operate with that information..

So some of you would be amazing at target identification as you would need no recce information and be able to find the target 100% of the time without any background information. Bravo you guys why aren't you in the police/counter terrorism/military?

 

[mmj_uk]

Have you heard the term racial stereotyping?

but if for example the majority of knife crime in London is by a particular race, don't you think it's sensible to "racially stereotype" (I'm sure there's more goes into it like sex/age/fashion/known gang affiliation as well) or should police waste resources arresting equal amounts of people in other demographics just for the sake of not being seen to be racist? isn't that counter-productive? not being able to stereotype in that way undermines policing and makes knife crime easier and as it's likely that the majority of victims of knife crime are black youths not only are you undermining policing, making knife crime easier but your policy of "anti-racism" is resulting in more deaths of black people... if black lives matter then why put racial stereotyping above saving black lives? because it makes for good virtue signalling?

 

[lemonkettaz]

Tony wouldn't operate like that, he would be a 1 man band always finding the bad guys with a 100% success rate.

Obviously all that unconscious bias training is coming into its own.

 

[Tony Edwards]

Tony wouldn't operate like that, he would be a 1 man band always finding the bad guys with a 100% success rate.

Obviously all that unconscious bias training is coming into its own.

Stop and search is a policy that I strongly agree with.

I just wouldnt see a black guy in a track suit and think he is up to something.

 

[Dolph]

Only there is, because black people are getting stopped more than white... or do you think being black is in and of itself suspicious?

Why aren’t white road men being stopped equally as much?

Do you believe that race and crime has a causative, as opposed to correlative effect when looking at crime statistics?

If not (and you shouldn't, because the correlation disappears when you adjust for other factors), why would you not expect stop and search to follow a similar pattern to crime statistics?

Disproportionate representation of specific minorites in both crime perpetrator figures and stop and search figures are going to be driven by the same factors that aren't race...

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

Only there is, because black people are getting stopped more than white... or do you think being black is in and of itself suspicious?

Why aren’t white road men being stopped equally as much?

It's been explained to you many times already. At this point you're either purposely obtuse or disingenuous.

 

[Stumble Bum]

Only there is, because black people are getting stopped more than white... or do you think being black is in and of itself suspicious?

Why aren’t white road men being stopped equally as much?

Have black people tried committing less crime to see if that makes a difference?