Race report: 'UK not deliberately rigged against ethnic minorities'

While I disagree that an imbalance of stop and search must be attributable to racism, there is no other way you can read stumblebums post other than a blatantly racist dogwhistle, that is now trying to be wrapped in an 'I'm not racist but...' pseudodefence

I dunno - surely if black people commit crime at a higher rate, or black youths make up say a higher portion of inner-city gangs or indeed high crime areas contain a higher portion of black people then when police target high crime areas or target street gangs then they'll inevitably end up stopping and searching a higher portion of black people...

These people will also often happen to be male and teenagers or in their 20s though accusations that the police are sexist towards men or agist towards youth aren't generally made in the same way.
 
Why are men being stopped and searched more than women?
isn't it something like only 65% of criminals are men and only around 30-35% are women

I'm sure a lot of known female shoplifters are getting stopped and searched a lot

but why would you target a demographic that isn't likely to have committed a crime

they are looking at a lot more than skin colour or sex, it's multiple factors that make you a higher chance of being a suspected criminal
 
Why are men being stopped and searched more than women?
Because women are too busy being sexually harrassed by men.

What a stupid question.

Stupid answer tbh... gang members are more likely men, robberies are more likely carried out by men, drug dealing more likely involves men etc.. police target these things. I suspect if you look at say shop lifters then you'll start seeing more women involved.

Funnily enough those previously mentioned areas tend to involve more black people too.

Some of it is cultural too - for example Australia didn't have much of a black(African) population until recently and unlike other groups, they don't have generations of historic discrimination as per say Arabs etc... They're new arrivals, a completely fresh start in a society that these days is a lot more tolerant than previous generations and yet what do we see re: crime and Somali youth in Australia... They've barely been in the country for a generation as a group and yet Somalis are disproportionately represented among criminals.
 
Thats all very well and good but sadly for many black people they dont have to be wearing baggy clothing to get stopped and searched.Because women are too busy being sexually harrassed by men.

What a stupid question.
You're the one claiming everything is systemic racism.

If your answer is that men commit more crimes than women, then you're a sexist and by your own logic, guilty of a hate crime.

Welcome to the world you created with your stupidity, enjoy it.
 
You're the one claiming everything is systemic racism.

If your answer is that men commit more crimes than women, then you're a sexist and by your own logic, guilty of a hate crime.

Welcome to the world you created with your stupidity, enjoy it.
lol good one
 
Here is what I think is a factor, the police will initially stop someone maybe just for questioning (its happened to me and I am white).

I expect the way you respond affects how likely you will be searched. If you are cooperative, at ease, you are less likely to be searched, especially if you dont fit a profile of a crime recently reported in the area. On the other hand if you are uncomfortable, you are evasive in your answers, you act in a hostile manner (distrust of the police), then you are more likely to be searched. I have seen youtube videos where the person is recording apparently over aggressive police and I have been disgusted with the way the person is acting, deliberately been obstructive and they deserve to be treated the way they are.

Then we come to the rich poor argument again, poor neighbourhood's have more crime, more anti social behaviour, but also non British white people are much more likely to live and be in these neighbourhood's so they as a result have an increased chance of been stopped and searched as police will naturally be more prevalent in these areas.

Ultimately it comes down to this, the Police are under resourced, they have to be picky on what to target, this is going to lead to lopsided stats on all sorts of things, many crimes dont even get investigated, they will prioritise things like violent crime and crime of high commercial damage.

So when you consider that ethnic minorities are more likely to be anti police, more likely to live in poor areas, and based on police data are more likely to be carrying weapons, it isnt surprising they more likely to be searched.

I still remember once when I was in pcworld, with a friend, I had previously been to this pcworld dozens of times, with no issue, often wondering the store but not buying anything. This was my first visit with this friend who was of mixed race, I approached the manager (didnt know was manager at the time) to ask about a monitor and said I wanted to buy it, he went to the back to get it. As we was waiting we got approached by 2 security guards who told us to leave, my friend got into a bit of a tantrum and was panicking, I was a bit shocked as this never happened to me before but I told them I am waiting for my monitor so they decided to let us wait. The manager came out with the monitor and told them its ok and asked them to leave. He also called a worker over to take it to the till with us and help us take it to the car. On the way to the till the worker explained in the past couple of weeks there was a lot of paranoia as there had been a lot of stuff stolen in that spell and even a new worker got escorted of the premises. So I will never know if my friends skin colour had anything to do with it, but a logical explanation was provided by the worker.
 
Stupid answer tbh... gang members are more likely men, robberies are more likely carried out by men, drug dealing more likely involves men etc.. police target these things. I suspect if you look at say shop lifters then you'll start seeing more women involved.

Funnily enough those previously mentioned areas tend to involve more black people too.

Some of it is cultural too - for example Australia didn't have much of a black(African) population until recently and unlike other groups, they don't have generations of historic discrimination as per say Arabs etc... They're new arrivals, a completely fresh start in a society that these days is a lot more tolerant than previous generations and yet what do we see re: crime and Somali youth in Australia... They've barely been in the country for a generation as a group and yet Somalis are disproportionately represented among criminals.

IMO Police using targeted stop and search nowadays is not as bad as in the years gone by, in majority of the cases they are profiling and depending on where you are in the country it will impact certain groups more then others. You might have the odd racist in the mix that will abuse this but in most cases times have changed. I don't have an issue with Police stopping me as long as they then treat me with respect when I am cooperating with their questions. I have been stopped a few times when I was younger, with mixed experiences.

However you are simplifying your response to the crime in Australia and links to African youths. Unfortunately the cause is far more complex then just saying they are doing it because they are black or its their culture. Most crime is linked to socio-economic factors rather then the colour of ones skin.

This is article that google got for me when I searched crime and ethnicity in Australia: https://theconversation.com/three-c...n-people-in-victorian-crime-statistics-101308

If everyone believed all rubbish spewed by the racists you would have thought crime in the UK did not exist prior to any BAME coming to the UK. Wasn't Jack the Ripper also a black man?
 
Personally I've never been stopped and searched as an adult and I likely look a bit dodgy.

usually go for daily walks around the city park I live near between 10pm and 2am and often seen a police car doing a patrol through the mostly unlit park.
never once been stopped or searched, usually I'm stoned as hell too and the only reason I went out was for a smoke walk.

most the people getting stopped and searched for "racist" reasons will be known to the police already

when I was a teenager I was in trouble with the law a lot, CID used to drive around the estate I lived on just looking to see where we all were.

mostly a lot of us weren't supposed to be breaking out bail conditions and hanging out together too, it's pretty much harassment right? but they have their reasons
 
However you are simplifying your response to the crime in Australia and links to African youths. Unfortunately the cause is far more complex then just saying they are doing it because they are black or its their culture. Most crime is linked to socio-economic factors rather then the colour of ones skin.

This is article that google got for me when I searched crime and ethnicity in Australia: https://theconversation.com/three-c...n-people-in-victorian-crime-statistics-101308

But I didn't say the colour of their skin was relevant I suspect there are cultural issues. People try to dismiss this by just attributing any discrepancy to poverty or historic discrimination but plenty of poor white people live in Australia and this is a group that wasn't there until recently yet now people from that groups are massively disproportionately over-represented as far as crime is concerned.

Looking at the stats in that article - do you suppose the Vietnamese immigrants are all wealthy?

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Same portion of offenders are Vietnamese vs Sudanese origin yet for the Vietnamese that represents a lower portion than the general population (1.1% vs 1.4%) and for the Sudanese it's off the scale in terms of their tiny portion of the general population (1.1% vs 0.1%).

There are 14 times as many Vietnamese in Victoria than Sudanese yet both immigrant groups contribute the same amount towards crime.

If everyone believed all rubbish spewed by the racists you would have thought crime in the UK did not exist prior to any BAME coming to the UK. Wasn't Jack the Ripper also a black man?

But no one is arguing that crime doesn't exist among other groups, just that some groups have a disproportionate involvement.

Are black females all wealthy and middle class relative to black males for example? There are clear differences in involvement in crime there that aren't explained by poverty. Likewise, you don't tend to find so many 30 and 40 year olds (poor or not) hanging around in street gangs of mugging people etc.. it tends to be people in their teens or 20s.
 
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You're the one claiming everything is systemic racism.

If your answer is that men commit more crimes than women, then you're a sexist and by your own logic, guilty of a hate crime.

Welcome to the world you created with your stupidity, enjoy it.
I have never claimed that everything is systemic racism.
lol good one
No it wasnt, it was a stupid remark based on prejudice. Which is not surprising.
 
But no one is arguing that crime doesn't exist among other groups, just that some groups have a disproportionate involvement.

Are black females all wealthy and middle class relative to black males for example? There are clear differences in involvement in crime there that aren't explained by poverty. Likewise, you don't tend to find so many 30 and 40 year olds (poor or not) hanging around in street gangs of mugging people etc.. it tends to be people in their teens or 20s.

To be honest criminals will be criminals regardless of where they are from. But I am pretty sure in most cases you will find they are a result of their environment.

With regards to the 30 and 40 year olds not hanging around, by then either they have reformed (believe it or not some get wiser with age) or they die/get injured or they move up the chain in the criminal world. Do you think all the county lines smuggling is being ran by youngsters? I am pretty sure just like the movies these are run by criminal masterminds that pull the strings from the background.

A lot of youth get influenced by easy money/gang culture or peer pressure, either because parents don't care about their education/upbringing or they are too busy trying to earn a living. This is a bigger factor in why black youths get into crime rather then the fact they are black. I have have seen first hand working in a School in Lewisham how this is a vicious cycle.
The same thing would happen to white youths also if the circumstances are the same.

But I have not seen any of the facts from the right wingers on here mention this, it suits their narrative to just point to the link Black people = crime.
 
To be honest criminals will be criminals regardless of where they are from. But I am pretty sure in most cases you will find they are a result of their environment.

And part of that is obviously cultural. Some of it can be biological too - high testosterone etc..

With regards to the 30 and 40 year olds not hanging around, by then either they have reformed (believe it or not some get wiser with age) or they die/get injured or they move up the chain in the criminal world. Do you think all the county lines smuggling is being ran by youngsters? I am pretty sure just like the movies these are run by criminal masterminds that pull the strings from the background.

Hardly masterminds but obviously far fewer of them. violent attacks, robberies are carried out by young males, fights, gang violence etc.. happens between young males.

A lot of youth get influenced by easy money/gang culture or peer pressure, either because parents don't care about their education/upbringing or they are too busy trying to earn a living. This is a bigger factor in why black youths get into crime rather then the fact they are black.

But no one said it was because they're black, you're arguing against a point no one made. Lack of care re: their education etc.. is cultural. You'll find plenty of poor Asian kids outperforming black and white kids for this reason, cultural emphasis on education, aspiration etc.. from parents.
 
But no one said it was because they're black, you're arguing against a point no one made. Lack of care re: their education etc.. is cultural. You'll find plenty of poor Asian kids outperforming black and white kids for this reason, cultural emphasis on education, aspiration etc.. from parents.

How do you measure 'cultural emphasis on education/aspiration' and how do you conclude one group of people are performing better because of their culture?
 
And part of that is obviously cultural. Some of it can be biological too - high testosterone etc..
But if you say its biological then one could argue it is a direct result of the slavery trade, you seem knowledgeable enough for me to not have to go into the details.


Hardly masterminds but obviously far fewer of them. violent attacks, robberies are carried out by young males, fights, gang violence etc.. happens between young males.
A lot of that gang violence tends to be underpinned by drugs etc, and those are not youngsters that import the drugs into the country and carry out the money laundering etc. Its like with the armies and stuff, you don't have the generals going into the battle, most of the fighting on the ground is done by the foot soldiers. And then the youth on youth violence is all part of that whole culture of gang violence. You must have seen on the news where they stab each other because one dissed the other on the rap videos etc.

But no one said it was because they're black, you're arguing against a point no one made. Lack of care re: their education etc.. is cultural. You'll find plenty of poor Asian kids outperforming black and white kids for this reason, cultural emphasis on education, aspiration etc.. from parents.
You may not have said it but there are a few nutters on here that point everything negative being caused by the non whites.

And also as you get into 3rd/4th/5th/etc generation, immigrants start to assimilate to the native culture they tend to lose that drive/aspiration as they start seeing themselves as being British. There was a documentary once about how immigrants tend to pick up the worst in the countries they settle in as time goes by rather then impart the good aspects of their culture.
 
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How do you measure 'cultural emphasis on education/aspiration' and how do you conclude one group of people are performing better because of their culture?

Lots of ways - for example Asian American kids do more homework than white and black kids, they tend to perform better in school as a reuslt.

But if you say its biological then one could argue it is a direct result of the slavery trade, you seem knowledgeable enough for me to not have to go into the details.

I'm referring to young men having high testosterone levels -ergo you don't see anywhere near as many young girls involved in say gang violence etc.. and likewise this tapers off with age too.

If you've got some point to make re: slavery then make it, I'm not a mind reader.

A lot of that gang violence tends to be underpinned by drugs etc, and those are not youngsters that import the drugs into the country and carry out the money laundering etc. Its like with the armies and stuff, you don't have the generals going into the battle, most of the fighting on the ground is done by the foot soldiers. And then the youth on youth violence is all part of that whole culture of gang violence. You must have seen on the news where they stab each other because one dissed the other on the rap videos etc.

Well yeah of course - and it's young men doing that (disproportionately black men too).
 
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