Racism, football and politics . . .

[Em3bbs]

Is this genuinely down to politics or simple ignorant tribal loyalty?

I accept that the Tories have been stoking the fires of racism for a number of years, targeted mostly at people of colour, Muslims and Europeans but I believe also that tribal loyalty amongst ignorant, committed tribal football fans will likely lead to them abusing opposing team's players by any means possible and this is going to be most marked in"Derby" matches.

Should the people manning turnstiles now start confiscating lighters and coins as well as bottles and cans?

As an aside, I believe that there are a few key "overseas" players in the City's first choice line-up

Also, I am delighted that Liverpool are even further ahead in the Premiership

I take it by the use of the word 'Premiership' that you're not actually really a football fan of any type since the top English league hasn't been called that since 2001.

Glass bottles and cans aren't allowed pitchside, nor is any open alcoholic drink or plastic bottle with a lid.

And you obviously didn't see the improvement from the 70s, 80s and 90s when it came to the reduction of hooliganism, when perhaps coincidentally the tories were in power.

But the tories, the tories, the bankers, the tories. We get it now.

 

[Threepwood]

Making big nose gestures towards a Jewish person has absolutely nothing to do with their religion though, so of course it counts as racism.

Erm.... Maybe you should read that back to yourself.

What makes a jew a jew is their religion, not their ethnic background, lol.

Edit: Which brings us onto the possibilities within law of belonging to multiple racial groups, say if they were a japanese jew and you started making slanty eye big nose gestures at them, the big nose part would come under racism towards their jewness and the slaty eyeness towards their ethnicity.

 

[G-MAN2004]

Erm.... Maybe you should read that back to yourself.

What makes a jew a jew is their religion, not their ethnic background, lol.

You do realise you can be ethnically Jewish but do not follow the religion of Judaism, right?

 

[Threepwood]

You do realise you can be ethnically Jewish but do not follow the religion of Judaism, right?

We're going to go around in circles here, 'ethnically jewish' sounds like a race to me, so are you saying that jews are a race in the traditional sense and not the legal sense? Can you point me in the direction of evidence showing a jewish genotype?

Perhaps using the jewish as an example was not the best idea, since many jews in different parts of the world do share some genetics by the nature of what has gone on with the folk of that religion being more isolated after groups splitting off and moving to different parts of the world. But I'm pretty sure there is no jewish genotype.

 

[Roar87]

Jews are an ethnic group as well as a religion, therefore you can be racist towards Jews. These don't seem like difficult concepts.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I accept that the Tories have been stoking the fires of racism for a number of years, targeted mostly at people of colour, Muslims and Europeans

It is my 100% experience of football matches and being employed in working class factories that the likely voting pattern of a racist thug would be Labour.

 

[Threepwood]

Jews are an ethnic group

As a cultural identity yes, but not as a race (in the traditional sense), so the big nose context doesnt apply does it?

 

[Roar87]

As a cultural identity yes, but not as a race (in the traditional sense), so the big nose context doesnt apply does it?

Jews are an ethnic group in the traditional sense, if you were to make big nose gestures at someone you thought to be Jewish you are literally being racist.

 

[Threepwood]

Jews are an ethnic group in the traditional sense, if you were to make big nose gestures at someone you thought to be Jewish you are literally being racist.

Yes ofc, but you are being racist towards their religion/culture, not because of their race (traditional sense, not legal)! There is no jewish genotype, if there were then every single jew would have a large nose... sheesh!

 

[G-MAN2004]

Yes ofc, but you are being racist towards their religion/culture, not because of their race (traditional sense, not legal)! There is no jewish genotype, if there were then every single jew would have a large nose... sheesh!

https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/gb-2009-10-1-r7

 

[rxodium]

My great grandfather was a founding member and player/manager of a club in Northern Ireland. Founded in an Orange Order hall, gives you an inkling into how linked to religion and politics football is here. I imagine if Northern Ireland was more racially diverse we'd see more incidents related to racism than sectarianism. End of the day, you're going to have bellends in supporter groups whose façade of tolerance and acceptance slips once they have a few jars in them and think they're safe amongst friends. The middle and upper classes keep that behind closed doors and at dinner parties rather than televised football matches.

 

[Threepwood]

https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/gb-2009-10-1-r7

I would conceed if only the article was talking about all jews and not ashkenazi Jews only. This is half the reason I should not have chosen the jewish for the example.

 

[Hagar]

Does this mean that Nicola Sturgeon is to blame after incidents at Celtic Rangers matches, or is that down to the Pope or King Billy (deceased).

 

[Tony Edwards]

Does this mean that Nicola Sturgeon is to blame after incidents at Celtic Rangers matches, or is that down to the Pope or King Billy (deceased).

Youve not really thought that through have you? Or are in denial about the racist comments Boris and the Tories use/make. When as far as Im aware Sturgeon has done none of that.

 

[Caracus2k]

Jews are an ethnic group as well as a religion, therefore you can be racist towards Jews. These don't seem like difficult concepts.

Many here struggle intensely with this very idea.

The whole a certain phobia is racism thing soon falls apart when you realise that anti semitism is all too often deliberately targeted at and includes known and obviously secular Jews.

Mein Kampf for example literally has Hitler refering to 'atheistic Jewish parties' in a pejorative fashion.

Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties

It would make zero sense to refer to an atheistic Muslim party in such a fashion because it would not likely exist (unless to push back against Islam itself) and because Islam is entirely defined by its ideology not the 'race' of its adherents unlike Judaism.

Gary Neville is yet another hypocritical media lovee in my book and can **** right back of to the one big political party that actually is seriously causing some minorities to worry about their status to the point that some of them actually are considering leaving the UK if a certain party gets into power.

 

[Adam]

I love football but genuinely despise most football fans and the culture. My life revolves around football and the amount of idiots you see at both grass roots and attending premier league games is incredible. The biggest problem is that it’s just seen as acceptable to be an idiot without any repercussions at all levels.

 

[stockhausen]

No message.

 

[stockhausen]

No message.

 

[Caracus2k]

Sadly, some people were not actually "considering leaving the UK", the decision was made on their behalf by a racist Tory Government . . .

You know full well that the Windrush scandal wasn't so much down to racism but incomptence that affected people in a relatively unusual situation whereby they had entered and remained in the UK legally decades ago but never formalised their status with the immigration authorities in the time since.

This sort of whataboutery is to expected from you though isn't it? Because people actively considering fleeing a country worried re political persecution are to be put in the same basket as the above scenario?

 

[Caracus2k]

I know, cool isn't it? Absolutely anybody can self-identify as Jewish

You wont be recognised as such by the rest of the community or most in the rest of the world if they know anything about your maternal heritage.

You might aswell say you can identify as a tree. Which could be true grammatically but is likely to generate at least a wry smile from most people if you go about talking about it