Racism, football and politics . . .

[Tony Edwards]

This sort of whataboutery is to expected from you though isn't it? Because people actively considering fleeing a country worried re political persecution are to be put in the same basket as the above scenario?

Talk about whataboutery.

One is a percieved persecution that has no actual basis and the other actually was political persecution by the Tories. But dont let facts get in the way of your right wing nonsense.

 

[Caracus2k]

Talk about whataboutery.

One is a percieved persecution that has no actual basis and the other actually was political persecution by the Tories. But dont let facts get in the way of your right wing nonsense.

You tell thoose Jews Tony!

It's all in their heads of course nothing to worry about!

And what are you on about 'poltical persecution'?

Don't talk such rot. The tories/lib dem coalition were just (Ineffectually) trying to introduce a policy that would have had consistent long term overwhelming public support.

Namely taking a firm stance on illegal migrants.

Its just goverments of all stripes tend to implement such things at least partially incompentently and it caught some people (who were clearly not the targets of said policy) up in the process.

 

[G-MAN2004]

You wont be recognised as such by the rest of the community or most in the rest of the world if they know anything about your maternal heritage.

You might aswell say you can identify as a tree. Which coul be true grammatically but is likely to generate at least a wry smile from most people if you go about talking about it

Exactly. I seem to recall Rabbis in Israel carrying out DNA tests on citizens wishing to get married. If they're not 'Jewish enough' they are not eligible for a marriage licence.

 

[VincentHanna]

Exactly. I seem to recall Rabbis in Israel carrying out DNA tests on citizens wishing to get married. If they're not 'Jewish enough' they are not eligible for a marriage licence.

Sounds pretty abhorrent.

 

[Tony Edwards]

You tell thoose Jews Tony!

It's all in their heads of course nothing to worry about!

And what are you on about 'poltical persecution'?

Don't talk such rot. The tories/lib dem coalition were just (Ineffectually) trying to introduce a policy that would have had consistent long term overwhelming public support.

Namely taking a firm stance on illegal migrants.

Its just goverments of all stripes tend to implement such things at least partially incompentently and it caught some people (who were clearly not the targets of said policy) up in the process.

Pray tell me what policies has Corbyn announced that will negatively affect jews as a group living in the UK? Are they going to be thrown out of their homes and lose their jobs or denied hospital treatment?

 

[Caracus2k]

Pray tell me what policies has Corbyn announced that will negatively affect jews as a group living in the UK? Are they going to be thrown out of their homes and lose their jobs or denied hospital treatment?

What are you expecting?

Yellow stars to be worn prominently? Specific extra compulsory expropriation of Jewish private property in addition to the actual expropriation of private property labour are proposing? Outlawing Jews from certain roles?

No it's mostly the rhetoric, actions and association that are the worry at this stage.

Much like you won't find any, in your view 'racist' policies from the Tories that are worded in the manner you are asking me about for the Jews.

But if you want something to chew on policy wise look at the wrangling and dodging we saw from labour over agreeing to even define what anti semitism is over the past few years as a party.

 

[Caracus2k]

Sounds pretty abhorrent.

Do you find native/aboriginal peoples similarly aborrent for insisting on a certain linegage to be considered 'part of the tribe'?

Just checking for consistency...

 

[Orionaut]

Exactly. I seem to recall Rabbis in Israel carrying out DNA tests on citizens wishing to get married. If they're not 'Jewish enough' they are not eligible for a marriage licence.

Maybe you read right, maybe you didnt.

However, It IS my understanding that it is often the case that todays Jews do undergo genetic testing prior to marriage (As part of the matchmaking process) since there are some rather nasty recessive genes within ethnic Jewish populations and it is considered good practice to try to ensure that prospective couples are a good eugenic match (Or at least not a bad one)...

 

[Caracus2k]

Maybe you read right, maybe you didnt.

However, It IS my understanding that it is often the case that todays Jews do undergo genetic testing prior to marriage (As part of the matchmaking process) since there are some rather nasty recessive genes within ethnic Jewish populations and it is considered good practice to try to ensure that prospective couples are a good eugenic match (Or at least not a bad one)...

Seems a bit of both may be going on...

Revealed: Rabbinate making Israelis undergo Jewish DNA test before being allowed to marry
New evidence shows chief rabbi demanding that citizens from former Soviet Union prove their Jewishness before they can marry; in some cases close relatives instructed to take tests as well; Lieberman demands chief rabbi resign immediately

 

[Tony Edwards]

What are you expecting?

Yellow stars to be worn prominently? Specific extra compulsory expropriation of Jewish private property in addition to the actual expropriation of private property labour are proposing? Outlawing Jews from certain roles?

No it's mostly the rhetoric, actions and association that are the worry at this stage.

Much like you won't find any, in your view 'racist' policies from the Tories that are worded in the manner you are asking me about for the Jews.

But if you want something to chew on policy wise look at the wrangling and dodging we saw from labour over agreeing to even define what anti semitism is over the past few years as a party.

So thats a no then. Just as I said perceived persecution.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

35 posts before 'BUT HITLER ..!'

Impressive.

 

[Tony Edwards]

35 posts before 'BUT HITLER ..!'

Impressive.

Thanks for reminding me.

is seriously causing some minorities to worry about their status to the point that some of them actually are considering leaving the UK if a certain party gets into power.

The Tories have actualy made 10s of thousands of EU citizens leave the UK because of the worry about their status because of their policies. But thats fine? You couldnt make up your bias if you tried.

 

[Caracus2k]

So thats a no then. Just as I said perceived persecution.

You appear to be playing word games around the word 'perceive'.

If you were a member of a political party whoose members made anti semitic remarks, who were not properly dealt with when the did so, who commerated the death of explicitly anti semitic terroist murderers as 'maytyrs' and who had a long history of association with and support for for virulently anti semitic terroist organisations I would not have 'no actual basis' for being very worried about what you might usher in politically if you were in power even if your manifesto didn't include openly anti semitic policies.


This would however furfill one defintion of 'perceive'

become aware or conscious of (something)

 

[Caracus2k]

The Tories have actualy made 10s of thousands of EU citizens leave the UK because of the worry about their status because of their policies. But thats fine? You couldnt make up your bias if you tried.

You getting confused again Tony? Is it old age?

Its uncertainty over the UK leaving the EU thats one factor in causing some eu nationals to decide to leave the UK or not come here in the first place.

This is an issue that straddles multiple poltical parties and isn't a tory issue alone.

Only the Brexit Party and maybe ukip can be said to have a coherent political position on the referendum to leave and implementation thereafter.

Do I really need to post the long list or quotes from people like Corbyn and Mcdonnell about their views on the EU or to point out what their position really is or point out how many tories are remainers?

Majority of new Conservative MPs backed UK to remain in EU

 

[Tony Edwards]

You getting confused again Tony? Is it old age?

Its uncertainty over the UK leaving the EU thats one factor in causing some eu nationals to decide to leave the UK or not come here in the first place.

This is an issue that straddles multiple poltical parties and isn't a tory issue alone.

Only the Brexit Party and maybe ukip can be said to have a coherent political position on the referendum to leave and implementation thereafter.

Do I really need to post the long list or quotes from people like Corbyn and Mcdonnell about their views on the EU or to point out what their position really is or point out how many tories are remainers?

No its the policies and rhetoric of the governing party. Neither UKIP nor Labour are in power to impliment policies. You seem to be choosing which nationalities you want to stick up for. Or is it just certain parties own forms of racisim you are sticking up for.

 

[chroniclard]

Dont argue with the forum nutters in GD.

 

[Caracus2k]

No its the policies and rhetoric of the governing party. Neither UKIP nor Labour are in power to impliment policies. You seem to be choosing which nationalities you want to stick up for. Or is it just certain parties own forms of racisim you are sticking up for.

Taking a 'tough stance on immigration' or removing the UK from the EU is always going to affect non UK nationals differently to UK nationals.

Hence in this sense you could say that any immigration controls are 'racist' because by definition they have to discriminate on the basis of nationality which is one of the possible differentiators for 'racisim'.

However there is a marked difference betwen a country adopting a different stance on immigration that affects non nationals vs a political party scarring a minority group of long time settled UK nationals to the point they are considering leaving the country for their safety.

I would have hoped you would not need this explained to you....

 

[dowie]

Making big nose gestures towards a Jewish person has absolutely nothing to do with their religion though, so of course it counts as racism.

^^^ this, it isn't that hard to understand

What makes a jew a jew is their religion, not their ethnic background, lol.

I would conceed if only the article was talking about all jews and not ashkenazi Jews only. This is half the reason I should not have chosen the jewish for the example.

Ashkenazi Jews constitute the vast majority of worldwide jews and are the people the big nose and similar features were made in reference to in antisemitic propaganda back in say 1930s Germany etc...

So to bring it back to @G-MAN2004 's point, that big nose gesture has no direct link to their religious beliefs but is directed at them as a racial/ethnic group.

I'd suspect that the Nazis weren't generally sat around thinking "Oh but what about the Ethiopian Jews"...

 

[Tony Edwards]

You know what. Im just watching the prostate exam Family guy episode and it actualy reminds me of this thread and Im not sure which character I am. Maybe Peter.

Sleep well Caracus.

 

[Sankari]

What makes a jew a jew is their religion, not their ethnic background, lol.

Er... no. The Jews are an ethnic group. Even if you're not a religious Jew, you can still be a Jew by birth.