Racist! Really?

inogen said:
It's called context. It's not just the caricature that's the problem, it's the rest of it, what it alludes to and how it has similar features to commonly accepted racist tropes.
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I think it's great, got a link to any more by this dude? :) My good friend the well known cartoonist Paul Sample did me a couple of sketches as birthday gifts, one's hung in the hallway, I may take a snap and you can critique it and what it may or may not represent to the world and to racially harmony. It must be difficult going out and about blindfolded to potentially upsetting images most find humorous and ear-plugged against any words that light your "Racist" warning ;) Best not look at Paul's Ogri cartoons you may have a seizure...Sexism abounds warning!
 
inogen said:
The cartoonist could have made exactly the same "joke" without reverting to the big lipped "Momma" gorilla jibe. That's just there for racist japes.
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I don’t think that I’ve read every post in this thread, but you’ve contributed a few, and it’s obvious that you believe that the cartoon, and the cartoonist are both racist.
That view is your prerogative to hold, but but unless I’m wrong, the word gorilla was introduced by you, perhaps not wise.
 
MrRockliffe said:
I don't think the comic is purposefully aimed at overemphasising black people in PARTICULAR, I think the idea is it's just overemphasising features in general. People seem to be looking into it too much, and as soon as they're offended they pull out the racist card.

It seems to me as though it's just a little tongue and cheek aimed at exposing Serena's poor (and childish) behaviour. That should be the real story here. Can't be acting like that when you're a role model for so many people. If you play, you've got to be prepared to lose. Such is life.
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I don't agree with her actions, and I'm not offended by the cartoon. However, it does carry a striking resemblance to the old 50's style cartoons (to the point that I can't help but think he's been at least subconsciously inspired by them) and that is either intentional or incredibly unfortunate in a way that really should have been picked up. This could be a cultural thing as posted previously, for instance i can't imagine this cartoon getting past editors in the UK or US, maybe standards or exposure are different in Australia to the point where this either wouldn't have been identified or nobody is particularly bothered.

I don't see any real evidence that the guy is racist, I've looked at his other work and i'd like to think the same picture in a slightly different artistic style wouldn't have caused any issue.
 
MrRockliffe said:
think the idea is it's just overemphasising features in general. People seem to be looking into it too much, and as soon as they're offended they pull out the racist card.
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This pretty much, it's the same in Japanese Manga/Anime. Features are enlarged, made to stand out and in general are overemphasising traits of the person/character.

Shows like Spitting Image and political cartoons have always done that.

I don't think the image is racist, the cartoon is a perfect description of how she acted in court.
 
Jean-F said:
I don’t think that I’ve read every post in this thread, but you’ve contributed a few, and it’s obvious that you believe that the cartoon, and the cartoonist are both racist.
That view is your prerogative to hold, but but unless I’m wrong, the word gorilla was introduced by you, perhaps not wise.
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Oh I see. So me using the word gorilla, which is a trope I can see in the cartoon is unwise. But you don't think there's anything wrong with the cartoon of a black woman that looks like a gorilla. Righto.
 
Uncle Petey said:
Yeah, ok, I'm clearly fuming, and you're totally not the kind of guy that needs to try really hard with the snide dismisal crap to make yourself feel clever and salvage some pride.

All I did was refer you to a pic I posted of her that shows she actually has blonde hair in real life, because you mentioned that she was oddly blonde in the cartoon.
You thought I was referring to the cartoon pic, not a real life one and confusion ensued.

Perhaps I should have linked directly to it, instead of simply telling you to scroll up. It would've saved us from all this nonsense.
Do you see the clear misunderstanding here?

None of this was necessary...
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Yikes, you really got out of the wrong side of bed today, didn't you!?!
 
FortuitousFluke said:
should have been picked up
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Why so? I didn't personally know about it until I read the BBC article and did a little research. For me it just comes across as a cheeky comic that picks out her distinct features. Thought it was quite funny, laughed and moved on. I didn't for one moment associate her larger than average lips with being black at all. If anything, I would associate large lips with plastic surgery gone wrong.

Again, I feel like people are picking holes, looking for excuses to be offended. If you're (not you personally) making the link between black people and large lips, surely that makes you the racist person?
 
MrRockliffe said:
Again, I feel like people are picking holes, looking for excuses to be offended. If you're (not you personally) making the link between black people and large lips, surely that makes you the racist person?
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I don't know, when the style resembles racist cartoons of old, you can both think the cartoon has racist undertones and not be racist for it...

I personally think the cartoon is a bit insensitive but not outright racist. It is easy to see why some may see it as racist.
 
MrRockliffe said:
Why so? I didn't personally know about it until I read the BBC article and did a little research. For me it just comes across as a cheeky comic that picks out her distinct features. Thought it was quite funny, laughed and moved on. I didn't for one moment associate her larger than average lips with being black at all. If anything, I would associate large lips with plastic surgery gone wrong.

Again, I feel like people are picking holes, looking for excuses to be offended. If you're (not you personally) making the link between black people and large lips, surely that makes you the racist person?
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Mainly because editors are the kind of people I'd expect to be able to spot the comparison, being as it really should be part of their job. I would have expected the artist to have spotted the similarities to be honest and I was a bit surprised that he's never been exposed to the style, you would have thought he would have come across it at some point in his work. Maybe it's just me and the whole thing has fallen from the general consciousness but it was pretty prolific in print and film, aspects of it even pop up in Tom and Jerry cartoons.
 
FortuitousFluke said:
Mainly because editors are the kind of people I'd expect to be able to spot the comparison, being as it really should be part of their job. I would have expected the artist to have spotted the similarities to be honest and I was a bit surprised that he's never been exposed to the style, you would have thought he would have come across it at some point in his work. Maybe it's just me and the whole thing has fallen from the general consciousness but it was pretty prolific in print and film, aspects of it even pop up in Tom and Jerry cartoons.
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I guess - I think the key thing here though is to not make any assumptions either way. We shouldn't assume he would know about these things, nor should we assume he doesn't. Ask the question first, and go from there, rather than what many (not aimed at you) have done and jump the gun and go in full defensive mode, throwing accusations round like "racist" and "sexist" with no hard proof, only "shoulds" and "shouldn'ts"

Totally get your point though. As an (experienced) editor, you would probably hope he's come across that style before.
 
This is one of those if you are an apologetic victim SJW, you see racism everywhere.

If you are a normal human of sane mind you see a characture sp? Of a very manly black women spitting out her dummy.

You really need to dig to get the race card on this to stick. Stop being perpetually offended.
 
MrRockliffe said:
I guess - I think the key thing here though is to not make any assumptions either way. We shouldn't assume he would know about these things, nor should we assume he doesn't. Ask the question first, and go from there, rather than what many (not aimed at you) have done and jump the gun and go in full defensive mode, throwing accusations round like "racist" and "sexist" with no hard proof, only "shoulds" and "shouldn'ts"

Totally get your point though. As an (experienced) editor, you would probably hope he's come across that style before.
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That's really the point for me, it's why I'm loathe to use the term racist because I don't know the intent, all I can say for certain is it's in bad taste and somebody involved should have known better. But it's not really worth the inevitable death threats that the guy will be receiving right now, chances are he's a nice bloke (for an Aussie) and he'll learn from the slip in judgement.
 
FortuitousFluke said:
That's really the point for me, it's why I'm loathe to use the term racist because I don't know the intent, all I can say for certain is it's in bad taste and somebody involved should have known better. But it's not really worth the inevitable death threats that the guy will be receiving right now, chances are he's a nice bloke (for an Aussie) and he'll learn from the slip in judgement.
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Very good point :)
 
I'd personally never seen or heard of the older cartoons that this has been linked to. To me, it was just a caricature depicting an individual who behaved in an unsporting manner.

I don't think it's racist. I don't even think it's in poor taste. It's a cartoon of someone acting like a baby because they didn't get their way and is throwing a tantrum - as with the dummy on the court in the picture.

Made me wonder though; if a street artist who draws caricatures for a living has a black individual sit down - Should they draw them?
If yes and emphasizing certain features is deemed racist - that's racist.
If no because what they draw maybe deemed racist, you're refusing to draw that person based on their race - that's racist.
 
How about we ban caricatures and only allow stick figures drawn in blue ink to avoid offending anyone in future. :p
 
So after 8 pages I take it everyone is appropriately triggered, opinions can only fit into one of two predefined slots and a meltdown is incoming?
 
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