Radeon VII

mahius · 10 Jan 2019 at 17:44

Raelgun said:
What do you mean if Nvidia were actually trying? what would they actually try with?

Literally by doing what they should have done and just priced the cards right. I.e. RTX 2060 @ $200, RTX 2080 @ $600... etc.

They can sure afford it, everyone knows they are cranking up prices to get Titan levels of profit margin on every market segment.

I'm glad that I don't need a GPU upgrade anytime soon, I sure as hell won't comply with these prices.

Edit: release of Radeon 7 makes me think there will be no Navi this year or Navi performance won't be that great. Otherwise a decent performing Navi would make Vega 56/64 above it obsolete and Radeon 7 seem like terrible value for money...

Legend · 10 Jan 2019 at 17:46

shankly1985 said:
RTX isn't exclusive to Nvidia. It's DirectX 12 Ray Tracing.
RTX is just Nvidia's name for it. AMD freely use Ray tracing how well the Vega 7 can remains to be seen. We do not know all the details about Vega 7 yet. All Amd Web site says is future proof ready what ever that means.

Lol, Radeon VII will not be able to do ray tracing, no more than the 1080Ti can. Not a chance. Turing can only do ray tracing because of the hardware that's on the card. The Radeon VII does not have this.

Shaz12 · 10 Jan 2019 at 17:55

shankly1985 said:
RTX isn't exclusive to Nvidia. It's DirectX 12 Ray Tracing.
RTX is just Nvidia's name for it. AMD freely use Ray tracing how well the Vega 7 can remains to be seen. We do not know all the details about Vega 7 yet. All Amd Web site says is future proof ready what ever that means.

AMD CEO was flatout asked about raytracing and she didn't respond saying the product supported it but rather changed the subject. Its the single headline feature of 2000 series and if AMD had an answer to it they would be bragging about it all over the place.

Gerard · 10 Jan 2019 at 18:11

Shaz12 said:
AMD CEO was flatout asked about raytracing and she didn't respond saying the product supported it but rather changed the subject. Its the single headline feature of 2000 series and if AMD had an answer to it they would be bragging about it all over the place.

Ever hear of radeon rays?

As for Su being asked about raytracing, she did give a response to it.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3332205/amd/amd-ceo-lisa-su-interview-ryzen-raytracing-radeon.html

layte · 10 Jan 2019 at 18:33

The only real time demo of Radeon Rays I have seen is this: https://twitter.com/RadeonPro/status/1030182408941961218 Which required 4 Radeon Pro WX8200 cards.

I'd love to see a better quality version to see how it strands up to what we have seen from RTX based cards.

Legend · 10 Jan 2019 at 18:48

Of course AMD will be working on something regards ray tracing, but how far away any official announcement is and if anything even comes of it at all remains to be seen. It won't be anytime soon that's for sure. Clearly from Su's comments, she recognises (unlike Nvidia) that just putting out a card capable of ray tracing isn't enough. There needs to be a viable ecosystem in order for it to actually offer something tangible for gamers. She's right of course, but in the meantime there is little doubt Nvidia will be using their muscle and influence to get devs on board with RTX. By the time AMD have something themselves, RTX may have gained a much stronger foothold than it does today, and we will almost certainly have next gen RTX cards by the time AMD have anything. I hope AMD do bring something significant to this table though... competition is obviously good for all of us.

nomadd · 10 Jan 2019 at 19:04

Legend said:
..but in the meantime there is little doubt Nvidia will be using their muscle and influence to get devs on board with RTX.
..RTX may have gained a much stronger foothold than it does today

Except the devs make nearly all their money on console these days (you know: AMD Inside.

)

And what little profit is left on PC is in PUBG, Fortnite, Minecraft and Lootboxes - hardly a hotbed of raytracing development.

I don't think AMD give a damn about DLSS and raytracing for now.

nashathedog · 10 Jan 2019 at 19:12

shankly1985 said:
RTX isn't exclusive to Nvidia. It's DirectX 12 Ray Tracing.
RTX is just Nvidia's name for it. AMD freely use Ray tracing how well the Vega 7 can remains to be seen. We do not know all the details about Vega 7 yet. All Amd Web site says is future proof ready what ever that means.

Legend said:
Lol, Radeon VII will not be able to do ray tracing, no more than the 1080Ti can. Not a chance. Turing can only do ray tracing because of the hardware that's on the card. The Radeon VII does not have this.

Shaz12 said:
AMD CEO was flatout asked about raytracing and she didn't respond saying the product supported it but rather changed the subject. Its the single headline feature of 2000 series and if AMD had an answer to it they would be bragging about it all over the place.

The 3dmark Raytracing test won't work with Vega & seeing as Nvidia have had to do a complete architecture redesign adding tensor cores etc I imagine that even if it could be turned on with Vega it would run so slow it'd be a waste of time.

shankly1985 · 10 Jan 2019 at 19:28

Sorry if already posted.

AMD's official data from the keynote/press release compiled for your viewing pleasure AMD Radeon VII vs. Radeon RX Vega 64 Gaming Benchmarks 2160p max
System: Intel i7 7700K, 16GB DDR4-3000

0h_no_not_again · 10 Jan 2019 at 19:36

Legend said:
Lol, Radeon VII will not be able to do ray tracing, no more than the 1080Ti can. Not a chance. Turing can only do ray tracing because of the hardware that's on the card. The Radeon VII does not have this.

Not quite correct. The tensor cores on the Tesla GPU perform low accuracy 4x4 matrix operations (FP16, INT8, INT4) per clock, which are being used for Ray Tracing and AI.

Vega II has rapid packed math support for FP16, INT8 and INT4 operations, although Vega II will not be as quick at matrix ops, where the Tensor cores are scarily powerful...
While matrix maths are great for some applications, they aren't great for all, so Vega II might be better under certain workloads.

The 1080ti didn't support matrix ops, nor any low accuracy operations (FP16, INT8, etc). So Vega and Vega II is far more powerful than the 1080ti for compute and RTX.

Note that the RTX2080 and Vega II have roughly the same number of transistors, so directly comparing their performance is quite reasonable.
It looks like Vega II is more densely packed than Turing though, which will limit its performance due to power delivery and thermal density - cheaper to fab!

Brazo · 10 Jan 2019 at 19:41

shankly1985 said:
Sorry if already posted.

AMD's official data from the keynote/press release compiled for your viewing pleasure AMD Radeon VII vs. Radeon RX Vega 64 Gaming Benchmarks 2160p max
System: Intel i7 7700K, 16GB DDR4-3000

Why are AMD using a 4 core intel to demo gaming FPS!

Oh yeah

shankly1985 · 10 Jan 2019 at 19:47

Brazo said:
Why are AMD using a 4 core intel to demo gaming FPS!

Oh yeah

Its no secret that Intel offer better gaming performance over Ryzen at this moment. IMO Ryzen offers a more complete overall workload package though, plus price.

These tests was clearly carried out by the AMD driver team.

Todays driver release
Footnotes

Testing conducted by AMD Performance Labs as of January 7th, 2019 on the 8GB Radeon™ RX 580, on a test system comprising of Intel i7 7700k CPU (4.2 GHz), 16GB DDR4-3000 Mhz system memory, and Windows 10 x64. PC manufacturers may vary configurations, yielding different results. With epic preset settings on Fortnite (Season 7) at 1920x1080, Radeon™ RX 580 scored 74.0 FPS with Radeon Software Adrenalin Edition 18.12.3, whereas the Radeon™ RX 580 scored 76.7 FPS with Radeon Software Adrenalin 2019 Edition 19.1.1. Comparing software versions, Radeon Software Adrenalin 2019 Edition 19.1.1 has 4% faster performance in Fortnite. Performance may vary based on use of latest drivers. RS-282
Testing conducted by AMD Performance Labs as of January 7th, 2018 on the 8GB Radeon™ RX Vega 64, on a test system comprising of Intel i7 7700k CPU (4.2 GHz), 16GB DDR4-3000 Mhz system memory, and Windows 10 x64. PC manufacturers may vary configurations, yielding different results. With epic preset settings on Fornite at 1920x1080, Radeon™ RX Vega 64 scored 115.1 FPS with Radeon Software Adrenalin Edition 18.12.3, whereas the Radeon™ RX Vega 64 scored 118.5 FPS with Radeon Software Adrenalin 2019 Edition 19.1.1. Comparing software versions, Radeon Software Adrenalin 2019 Edition 19.1.1 has 3% faster performance in Fortnite. Performance may vary based on use of latest drivers. RS-283

LePhuronn · 10 Jan 2019 at 20:24

mahius said:
Edit: release of Radeon 7 makes me think there will be no Navi this year or Navi performance won't be that great. Otherwise a decent performing Navi would make Vega 56/64 above it obsolete and Radeon 7 seem like terrible value for money...

There is nothing stated, leaked, insinuated or anything to suggest that the GPU roadmap has changed in any way. Navi was always anticipated around September of this year, Navi was always going to replace the existing Polaris and Vega products, and even the top-end Navi as leaked won't touch the Radeon 7 in performance.

Radeon 7 vs RTX 2080
RX 3080 vs RTX 2070
RX 3070 vs RTX 2060
RX 3060 vs everything lower

If we don't hear anything about Navi at Computex then maybe there's something to be concerned about, but Navi was always intended to be a small, fast and cheap mainstream architecture. Radeon 7 does not change that narrative.

Gerard · 10 Jan 2019 at 20:35

Legend said:
Lol, Radeon VII will not be able to do ray tracing, no more than the 1080Ti can. Not a chance. Turing can only do ray tracing because of the hardware that's on the card. The Radeon VII does not have this.

Pascal and Vega are perfectly capable of doing ray tracing, it's just at a slower frame rate than a card with dedicated cores for the task. Titan Volta also does it despite not having the RT cores, it's just slower overall.

Gerard · 10 Jan 2019 at 20:36

Brazo said:
Why are AMD using a 4 core intel to demo gaming FPS!

Oh yeah

This was news.....about 10 years ago.

Legend · 10 Jan 2019 at 21:07

Gerard said:
Pascal and Vega are perfectly capable of doing ray tracing, it's just at a slower frame rate than a card with dedicated cores for the task. Titan Volta also does it despite not having the RT cores, it's just slower overall.

Well techincally yes, but isn't that like saying my 92-year old granny could run a marathon... she'll puff and wheeze and nearly die making it across the finish line.

Gerard · 10 Jan 2019 at 21:08

Legend said:
Well techincally yes, but isn't that like saying my 92-year old granny could run a marathon... she'll puff and wheeze and nearly die making it across the finish line.

The volta scores were actually reasonable for a card with no rt cores. https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gp..._rtx_2080_ti_when_ray_tracing_battlefield_v/1

JediFragger · 10 Jan 2019 at 21:10

Boomstick777 said:
Mind you I am mainly playing VR on PC.

That'll do it for sure, def faster in VR.

4K8KW10 · 10 Jan 2019 at 21:50

shankly1985 said:
Its no secret that Intel offer better gaming performance over Ryzen at this moment. IMO Ryzen offers a more complete overall workload package though, plus price

But the point of the comparison is to outline the difference % between the two products in which case the absolute numbers that are being compared are not relevant. In which case, it makes no sense to use the competitor's product.

LePhuronn said:
There is nothing stated, leaked, insinuated or anything to suggest that the GPU roadmap has changed in any way. Navi was always anticipated around September of this year, Navi was always going to replace the existing Polaris and Vega products, and even the top-end Navi as leaked won't touch the Radeon 7 in performance.

Let's hope that Navi is a really small chip.

Boomstick777 · 10 Jan 2019 at 21:57

JediFragger said:
That'll do it for sure, def faster in VR.

Just seen these. Def made the right choice for my usage.