It's the same GPU as AMD's, just with different stickers.
But that's a good thing. Some 3rd party cards have lower quality components than the reference model.
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Radeon VII
- Thread starter DragonQ
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But that's a good thing. Some 3rd party cards have lower quality components than the reference model.
Which is just a wild fantasy, e.g. RX3080 would need to have half the power draw of the Radeon 7 while be based on the same architecture, built on the same 7nm process and using memory that likely has an additional 20-30W power draw according to AMD. To hit the price point then the cost per transistor would have to half at least, while using the exact same process.
$250 is going to be much closer to the cost of a working die coming of the new 7nm process, to which you have to add memory, PCB, HSF, VRMs, warranty, shipping, AMD margins, AIB margins, retailer margins (and distributor margins frequently).
Make that RX3080 $500 (ex VAT) and 250w and we probably have something more realistic.
The comparison you're making is ridiculous. There's no more reason to think of Navi as the same architecture as Vega than there is to think of Polaris the same as Vega. Clearly there are significant differences between them and what they result in. To look at Radeon 7 and think you know what Navi is going to look like is the height of absurdity.
You are going in the exact opposite direction with your estimation, but I'm happy to simply reserve judgement on final numbers. Whether it ends up being 150w, or it ends up 200w, is simply uninteresting.
Soldato
Isn't Navi using a latest (probably last) revision of the GCN architecture? If I recall Vega's architecture which he Radeon VII uses has a large part of it's die space for memory bus and it has a high bandwidth cache controller which will most likely not be included in Navi to keep the costs down. Until we get more details on the design for Navi it's almost impossible to predict what it can potentially deliver.
Soldato
D.P's predictions aren't that far out but as I mentioned above Navi will most likely be a cut down version of Vega with a smaller memory bus and missing the non gaming features like HBCC to keep the size of the die in check. Navi will most likely be GCN again, I would guess Navi is going to be a revision of Polaris so it will have the architecture but the instruction set will be updated. GCN has plenty of good issues when it comes to gaming, AMD's focus on fixed function hardware over the years has hurt performance because Nvidia's designs have allowed them render things like tessellation on the cuda cores amongst to other things (geometry performance for example). By the time Nvidia get's is 7nm products ready it will be a repeat of what we have seen for the last few years.
It is just another minor evolution of GCN, there is no fundamentally new architecture or new fab process - both of which would be required to get anywhere near twice the performance per watt.
removing the complex HBM memory controller might shave off a tiny bit of die area, but then the power consumption of the GDDR is higher. The HBC copntroller is liekly a few percent of the die area at the most. Vega10 had this, I don;t see why they would get rid of it.
Look what AMd achieved going form Fiji to Vega, performance at IPC stayed constant.
At best you are looking at around a 10% performance per watt improvement over Vega20. Production cost on the 7nm process are far higher then the GF 14nm (and always will be, just the nature of the process).
The production cost of say an RX580 moved to 7nm + GDDR6 will increase by a factor of 1.5x.
Polaris and and Vega are both the same macro architecture - GCN. Vega is a minor iteration, version 5 versus version 4 of Polaris.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_RTX_2060_Founders_Edition/34.html
Vega64 and RX580 have very similar performance per watt.
My prediction is based on reality.
How are they not far out? Do you have access to Navi's specs and can assess the veracity of his prediction?
And to say Navi is a cut down version is again just a terminological mess. A cut down Vega is a cut down Vega. Navi is simply a new micro architecture and you have no idea what fundamental differences are made to it. So how could it be called what the two of you are saying unless you simply don't care about what words you use and what they mean?
Let me simplify the semantics. Let's make a wager. If the Navi = V64 is closer to 200w or 250w. £100. Closer to 250w you win, closer to 200w I win.
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I'm the one that is delusion when you think ADM can magic out a GPU with twice the performance per watt and for one third of the price using an identical fabrication node and nothing but a minor architecture revision when AMD hasn't made significant progress in 3 generations.
yeah sure, just keep smoking whatever you are on.
yeah sure, just keep smoking whatever you are on.
Why are you changing the goals poist, you were claiming Vega64+15% performance at 150w, Not so sure now are you?
Permabanned
I'm not sure where but I recently read an article where one of the AMD bigwigs was being interviewed & he/she stated that VII was the high end component for now, Since the beginning Navi has been treated as the Polaris replacement, IMO the only way the VII will be replaced at the high-end before 2020 is if AMD release the full chip version of the VII, what we have now is effectively the Vega 56 equivalent so it could happen.
Soldato
I think what we are all waiting for in terms of power and choice will happen in 2020, AMD is a bit of a mess right now, Nvidia have flopped out their meat scepters and said "pay for this POWERRRRRRR"
2020 will be a year of 7nm nvidia, AMD new architecture Arcturus 7nm/ 7nm+ and Intels first proper foray into dGPU's
So basically just deal with what you have or if you have to upgrade IMO get a second hand 2080 or vega 64 (56 and bios mod it to a 64)
after selling what you have now to recoup and last a year ish. again though just my opinion
Vega VII is Feb 7th and OcUK is launch partner and we should have limited quantities. AMD will not be selling direct in UK. Price shall be £650 - £700 !
NAVI an update is expected June (Computex) and on shelf is likely to be expected September-November time, this could come as early as July or as late as December.
The prices will be higher than rumoured, as those who believe rumours are total idiots, like the silly people who though 1080Ti would be £300-£400 to be cleared, like the people who though GTX 1180 or 2080 was coming at £500.
AMD will undercut NVIDIA and match performance, but the price shall not be half for same performance level. You have to think logical about such things.
RX 590 shall remain and Vega 7nm is flagship part, NAVI won't out perform Vega 7 what you will have is:
RX 590 @ £199 no doubt to clear
RX 3060 @ 580 performance for £149, so fitting in where 570 is now, same price but more performance.
RX 3070 @ Vega 56 Performance for £249 - £299
Vega 56 @ £299 but by then there shall be none left
Vega 64 @ £399 but again there shall be none left
RX 3080 @ Vega 64 +15% so a true 1080 beater and it shall be £349-£399
Vega VII @ £599 no doubt reduced to clear any excess inventory for Vega 7nm+ or next high performance part.
All based on 1.25-1.35 pound strength
If we get above 1.50 by said time, those prices will be impacted in a positive way (downwards) and as will all NVIDIA cards too.
AMD are already giving better value for money compared to NVIDIA now, with the above they simply become even further better value for money, more performance, power reduction and of course lower cost.
AMD is not a charity, they won't be half the price because to put it if they can make more margin, they absolutely will, not because they are greedy, but because they need to survive and make good profits to keep developing and keeping researching better products and technology. Look at the slump AMD had for years when they were making loss after loss, RX 290, RX 390, RX 480, RX 580, just the same stuff re-spun and their competitor gaining more and more market share. Profits equal more advancement, better marketing, better drives and most important better products.
AMD have come so far in past 12 months alone compared to five years previous on CPU particular.
Associate
You sound like a Prophet come down from the mountain Gibbo. And he sayeth: "THERE SHALL BE NONE LEFT"!
Well that's how I heard it in my head (Charlton Heston perhaps?)...
PS You forgot to mention the shareholders Gibbo, they want and need that prophet... I mean, profit, for their dividends. A difficult tightrope for Dr Su to walk...
Well that's how I heard it in my head (Charlton Heston perhaps?)...
PS You forgot to mention the shareholders Gibbo, they want and need that prophet... I mean, profit, for their dividends. A difficult tightrope for Dr Su to walk...
Soldato
Vega 7 10% performance over a 3080 for £200 more....?