Soldato
The army/navy/airforce should be the epitome of meritocracy
RAF recruitment, has it gone a bit too far...
- Thread starter Uther
- Start date
Same here, heck back in 2009 there were quite a few OCUK'ers joining the RAF at roughly the same time. I remember @Zefan being one of them.
I'm still here, 13 years later and counting down the years.
You don't even need fitness anymore either.
RAF recruits shouldn't worry about passing fitness tests if they are tech fit, says military chief
The head of the RAF said the need to hire from the widest pool of talent was hugely important - including people with autism and other forms of neurodiversity.news.sky.com
Still in here too.
Don't want to say too much on the subject really, for obvious reasons, but we can all agree the new recruitment videos are awful along with their recruiting targets...
Soldato
Spent 22 years in the RAF as an engineer, left it all behind for 7 years but now I'm a civvy working alongside (and instructing) a whole heap load of RAF engineers (18-50yo - new engineers to managers) and I absolutely agree with the highlighted sections and in my office of 50+ civvys (95% ex-forces themselves) they all seem to be in agreement with those highlighted sections too from our many discussions around the water cooler as we talk about the latest DASOR/Accident form.
This next bit may seem unfair or harsh but it's my "lived experience" -
When myself and others have described the hard work required when you're on Ops to the 18-20yo new folks now, the general response tends to be "Well I'm not doing that" and the very idea that "someone" could tell these new folks "tough, get on with it" when that hard work is required is alien to so many of them. Whilst the overwhelming majority are genuinely "nice people" to be around, the general attitude they've shown to me post Russia/Ukraine shows me that far too many (maybe 25-40%) just don't have the drive, determination or basic desire required to succeed when the poop hits the fan, compared to the folks I worked alongside who'd been doing it for over 20+ years in Bosnia/Kosovo/Iraq/Afghan/Libya/Iraq/Syria etc.
Whats worse for me is the RAF's engineering JNCO/CPL "backbone", which used to be filled with 30+yo mature (mostly married, 2 kids etc) who took pride in "passing on knowledge/bringing up" the next generation of 20-30yo's to get them to the required standard, is now filled with way too many 25yo immature folks who just aren't capable of passing on knowledge/bringing up anyone, because they just couldn't be bothered to put the effort required to ensure the quality of people doesn't drop (Urgh, it's too much work, I'd rather be watching TikTok etc) and they get away with it because no-one in any upper management roles seems to care about that any more.
I'm happy to admit that maybe I'm just an old grumpy git now who is looking back with rose-tinted glasses and my comments aren't aimed at the 60-75% of the new generation who are doing as well as we did, but knowing how well we did when it was "for real" vs the attitude shown by too many in this new generation, I have some fairly large concerns that many of those will fall apart when they actually need to be at their strongest (physically and mentally) and I would hate to see the operational effect that will have.
Permabanned
Retracted.
Soldato
Not the RAF, but I applied for a position at a company a few times and never heard back. Applied again, but this time said I was mixed race on the application form and voila, got a phone call the next day asking if I could attend an interview.
I've done 13 years to date in the RAF. It's not the same anymore.
The RAF has been in the papers several times over the last few weeks, at least a wider audience is getting to see what an absolute circus we have become.
For me the absolute biggest problem is careerism, and people who don't have skin in the game. That, and we don't have an overall direction. Just a penchant for buzz words and a perpetual need to reinvent the wheel.
Careerism.
Middle ranking officers who will bend and twist the truth, or purposely withhold issues that are passed from the lowest levels. For example, if a high ranking Air force officer is due to visit our unit. Personnel are encouraged to ask a question. Though that question will be vetted and re-worded to of course not rock the boat. Because you wouldn't want any middle ranking officers looking bad. Heaven forbid. Too many people are focused on their next career step, and not for the betterment of the RAF or their unit / subordinates.
There are far too many officers who are reservists. Now, don't get me wrong, reservists bring flexibility and when employed properly bring massive advantages. Though many of them choose their reservist commitment as an easy way to lower their golf handicap. Or to continue to "work from home" (lol). They have no skin in the game and only utilise the RAF to further top up their old-money pensions. 9-5 Mon - Fri only.
This article about BAME recruitment is hillarious! I have friends that work in recruitment and they are at the end of their tether. They have worked with BAME recruits/candidates over the years and the system is broken. For example:
A BAME recruit looks to the RAF and makes initial enquires. They choose their chosen preferred job and proceed to go through the awfully sluggish recruitment process. At this time the recruiters send their details to officers that work at RAF Cranwell (Cranwell being the hub for initial officer training). As the RAF recruitment is so dynamic that various jobs open and close every few months. There are loads of occasions where high quality, and very talented individuals are left in limbo. This can honestly go on for months, where the RAF doesn't maintain contact with the individual in question.
When the RAF sorts itself out and manages to process a potential applicant (this can honestly be 6 months or so). The recruiters are tasked with getting in touch with the potential recruit to inform them that the RAF has a vacancy for them. However, in the 6 months that the RAF has kept this person waiting, civilian industry has snapped up this talented individual and has got them working already. The RAF is losing talent before it even attests to the Queen. Then when the stats are drawn up for the year, the RAF is left scratching its head as to why we haven't had many BAME joiners. Stats are EVERYTHING in the RAF.
The RAF has been in the papers several times over the last few weeks, at least a wider audience is getting to see what an absolute circus we have become.
For me the absolute biggest problem is careerism, and people who don't have skin in the game. That, and we don't have an overall direction. Just a penchant for buzz words and a perpetual need to reinvent the wheel.
Careerism.
Middle ranking officers who will bend and twist the truth, or purposely withhold issues that are passed from the lowest levels. For example, if a high ranking Air force officer is due to visit our unit. Personnel are encouraged to ask a question. Though that question will be vetted and re-worded to of course not rock the boat. Because you wouldn't want any middle ranking officers looking bad. Heaven forbid. Too many people are focused on their next career step, and not for the betterment of the RAF or their unit / subordinates.
There are far too many officers who are reservists. Now, don't get me wrong, reservists bring flexibility and when employed properly bring massive advantages. Though many of them choose their reservist commitment as an easy way to lower their golf handicap. Or to continue to "work from home" (lol). They have no skin in the game and only utilise the RAF to further top up their old-money pensions. 9-5 Mon - Fri only.
This article about BAME recruitment is hillarious! I have friends that work in recruitment and they are at the end of their tether. They have worked with BAME recruits/candidates over the years and the system is broken. For example:
A BAME recruit looks to the RAF and makes initial enquires. They choose their chosen preferred job and proceed to go through the awfully sluggish recruitment process. At this time the recruiters send their details to officers that work at RAF Cranwell (Cranwell being the hub for initial officer training). As the RAF recruitment is so dynamic that various jobs open and close every few months. There are loads of occasions where high quality, and very talented individuals are left in limbo. This can honestly go on for months, where the RAF doesn't maintain contact with the individual in question.
When the RAF sorts itself out and manages to process a potential applicant (this can honestly be 6 months or so). The recruiters are tasked with getting in touch with the potential recruit to inform them that the RAF has a vacancy for them. However, in the 6 months that the RAF has kept this person waiting, civilian industry has snapped up this talented individual and has got them working already. The RAF is losing talent before it even attests to the Queen. Then when the stats are drawn up for the year, the RAF is left scratching its head as to why we haven't had many BAME joiners. Stats are EVERYTHING in the RAF.
Associate
- Joined
- 10 Sep 2008
- Posts
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Capita only recruit for the Army - and while the media like to slam them for failing to meet recruitment targets, they neglect to say that for the last 3 years they have delivered 100% of the requested target. RAF/RN handle their own recruitment in house and are no where near hitting theie targets.
Also, further to my last. Do look at the following:
en.wikipedia.org
100% white.
They should lead by example. Some of them should give up their positions, in favour of a highly competent BAME candidate. I'm sure there are plenty of suitably qualified person that could fill the role from all across the civil service. Such a person could take up one of these many 6 figure advisory roles they have squared themselves away with. We have more Air Officers now, than we did in WW2.
List of serving senior officers of the Royal Air Force - Wikipedia
100% white.
They should lead by example. Some of them should give up their positions, in favour of a highly competent BAME candidate. I'm sure there are plenty of suitably qualified person that could fill the role from all across the civil service. Such a person could take up one of these many 6 figure advisory roles they have squared themselves away with. We have more Air Officers now, than we did in WW2.
I worked for the MOD for roughly 10 years.
About 125 people around me, a good 115 were white men and the rest white women.
Soldato
'Great' disappeared from 'Britain' many years ago!
Well yeah, of course their spokesperson is going to say that.
Permabanned
Well we can't be short of mariners, surely? Over 21,000 newcomers to Great Britain have proven themselves (so far this year alone) to be able to negotiate the busiest shipping channel in the world in overladen craft with no official training 
Associate
Yeah there are a lot of 'kids' here who want to join the ADF (Australian Defence Forces) to get a free uni degree - think its an easy thing and they say if there' s a war they "just won't go to it".
ROFLMAO - yea? Guess what...
It is well proven that more diverse teams/companies have higher productivity and higher chances of successful outcomes with higher chances of diversity in race, better gender balance, diversity of religion and of educational institutes.
People with different cultural backgrounds and different genders tend to to bring unique qualities and analyse problems and their solutions differently. Kt is like weather forecasts, you don't just look at 1 model or the same model repeated N-times (people all with identical backgrounds), you look at different models and do a meta-analysis.
This Is one of the major reasons companies are forcing diversity in hiring and better gender balances because it is probably better for the companies bottom line and the shareholders.
Kidding right? Russian casualties in Ukraine have been predominately ethnic minorities....
Soldato
The important difference here would be that "diversity of thought" isn't really desired in the military where there is hundreds of years of "we do it this way because it works" followed by a strict adherence to "following the book" which means that after giving someone (anyone) an order you will get a repeatable, known result everytime.
These "books/rules" do change but it is very rare and usually only after a loss of life, so whilst the idea that a "wide diverse range of background/thoughts" makes for good PR soundbites, the very first thing that's happens to every single member of the military during recruit training is "don't think for yourself, follow orders exactly" which negates all the previous "we want diversity of thought".
Soldato
Like a bullet or missile is going to care about what colour someones skin is. Ridiculous.